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[Zangi]

Well, its not a waste of time if you set out to convince the fellows to serve you instead...

[Rakonas]

I defeated the Mauretanian hordes using the power of lots of savings and mercenaries and took Seville. My dynasty is also set to inherit a few duchies in France and the HRE.

Spoiler: Iberia before (click to show/hide)

Spoiler: Iberia now (click to show/hide)

Spoiler: Europe 1112 (click to show/hide)

In my Leon game I had 4 kingdom titles in 1086.. You should go the historical route and kill your brother Sancho. Also the other brother because fuck yeah more titles.

[Digital Hellhound]

And jesus christ this emperor, 65+% warscore, I control the capital, they have no forces that could even remotely take me on - lolnope, it's just a flesh wound. At this point I started to run out of money (had two high-level merc companies to help me out) and ragequit. Moneylenders saved me for a bit, but one of the merc companies managed to disband by the time that event hit, and then a Byzzie army materialized out of nothing (this alone isn't so bad, I beat the previous ones quite handily) and invades my african holdings. Cue Emperor's willingness to fight going from 'it's just a flesh wound' to 'come on, you pansy!'.

Well it sounds like it was just a fleshwound, you had no staying power so as soon as you shot your load the emperor hired mercs to put you in your place.  You know, mercs, those armies that you magically materialized at your capitol?

I've seen many kingdoms get usurped this game and just watched the romans go through a decade of five emperors.  I didn't have all that much trouble declaring independence once I had a strong powerbase and that was going up against the HRE which is a pretty tough opponent.

Thanks for the mental image, man. But no, you misunderstand. I had no trouble with the mercs, who I killed again and again (I even saw different merc companies dwindle down to nothing in the hiring screen), but in the end he just had more money, understandably. The african army wasn't even big, just 2k men. But thanks for the insulting and aggressive tone anyhow.

What was your HRE powerbase? I had three duchies and 2000 gold for my Byzantine adventure, and because the Empire was going up in flames I thought others would try the same. Only Armeanicon did, unfortunately.

The latter part is good to hear. I'm hoping Marrakech's war for Mauretania would end up deposing Maur, or atleast losing, because right now they're the only thing capable of stopping Le Blue Blob in Iberia.

[Cheese]

I defeated the Mauretanian hordes using the power of lots of savings and mercenaries and took Seville. My dynasty is also set to inherit a few duchies in France and the HRE.

Spoiler: Iberia before (click to show/hide)

Spoiler: Iberia now (click to show/hide)

Spoiler: Europe 1112 (click to show/hide)

In my Leon game I had 4 kingdom titles in 1086.. You should go the historical route and kill your brother Sancho. Also the other brother because fuck yeah more titles.

Too late for that now, though Castille has a 4 year old girl on the throne at the moment. I've already married my 3 oldest sons off though, and the regent won't accept a betrothal with the girl-Queen of Castille because they desire a better alliance.

[Glowcat]

Too late for that now, though Castille has a 4 year old girl on the throne at the moment. I've already married my 3 oldest sons off though, and the regent won't accept a betrothal with the girl-Queen of Castille because they desire a better alliance.

I still get that a lot too... despite conquering France and having the ability to summon ~15k soldiers with a single command. What more do they want?!

[Dutchling]

I just married my grandsons daughter. All for the sake of keeping the bloodline pure of course .

[Cheese]

Too late for that now, though Castille has a 4 year old girl on the throne at the moment. I've already married my 3 oldest sons off though, and the regent won't accept a betrothal with the girl-Queen of Castille because they desire a better alliance.

I still get that a lot too... despite conquering France and having the ability to summon ~15k soldiers with a single command. What more do they want?!

For my case, I think it's that the younger sons aren't landed yet. If I were to give them land she might accept, but it might just be some obscurely named way of stopping the AI basically giving away it's kingdom. Are you trying to marry them with your ruler or a child?

[Glowcat]

It was one of my Heir's sons, so not in the immediate family yet. That might've been the reason. I'm not sure on what basis they make their assessment for the worth of a marriage prospect.

[Cheese]

God damn. My mother, duke of Franconia and Thuringia just died. I got the duchy of Franconia, while my brother, whom I had given 2 counties in conquered Muslim areas where I hadn't created/usurped the duke titles, inherited Thuringia. My brother became a vassal of the HRE, taking his two Iberian provinces with him, while a chunk of land in the centre of the HRE is now part of Leon. This is going to get in the way of forming Iberia, but it might actually help since Mauretania will only be able to declare war on the HRE, not me, once I've taken Granada.

Spoiler: HRE in Iberia (click to show/hide)

Spoiler: Leon in HRE (click to show/hide)

[Gantolandon]

I still get that a lot too... despite conquering France and having the ability to summon ~15k soldiers with a single command. What more do they want?!

Keep in mind that they want an ally as soon as possible. Check when would the resulting marriage result in an alliance. If you marry your king with some princess, this is pretty straightforward - the other ruler is your father-in-law, so the alliance would be applied immediately. This is not always the case when you are giving away your heir when you need to wait a certain amount of time until your ruler dies.

Also, the closer is the kinship between two rulers, the stronger is the alliance. When your ally calls you to war and you refuse, you take a prestige hit which depends of this factor. Refusing your parent or sibling costs you 100 prestige, for example. It's meager 25 for your brother-in-law though. It's possible that AI also factors how painful dishonoring the alliance would be for you.

Well it sounds like it was just a fleshwound, you had no staying power so as soon as you shot your load the emperor hired mercs to put you in your place.  You know, mercs, those armies that you magically materialized at your capitol?

I've seen many kingdoms get usurped this game and just watched the romans go through a decade of five emperors.  I didn't have all that much trouble declaring independence once I had a strong powerbase and that was going up against the HRE which is a pretty tough opponent.

Actually... I constantly see vassals rebelling against their lieges for various reasons, but they rarely succeed. When they do, it's usually some smaller country like Denmark or Croatia. Once I saw a large rebellion in HRE - ten wars of independence and two to depose the Kaiser, and among the attackers were Norway (which were mysteriously swallowed 20 years before) and Bohemia. Imperial armies just swallowed the minor ones and dragged the war with the rest so long that they either died out (ending the war) or white-peaced. Even the ones who were winning and got above 50%.

The reason of this is that AI can't coordinate its attacks very effectively, so they just wander through the Empire and conquer the easiest provinces they can find. They don't even try to set any pattern to this - in the above example, Norway conquered just one county in the north, then proceeded to capture Italian states. Meanwhile the Empire spawns their doomstacks which the rebels can't counter, because individually they can't muster as much and they won't join their forces even if they are part of the same plot. Even if they in some way have any means to destroy the stack, the war drags indefinitely, because they don't seem too interested to meet it. So then it's just the race who conquers more provinces in less time.

After Der Grey Blob gets Medium Crown Authority (which is easy to do and doesn't upset its vassals more than it would in any other country), its edges are the borders of an event horizon. Whatever gets there, will stay there.

[mainiac]

What was your HRE powerbase? I had three duchies and 2000 gold for my Byzantine adventure, and because the Empire was going up in flames I thought others would try the same. Only Armeanicon did, unfortunately.

I had three kingdoms (Italy, Sicily, Jerusalem but only around 60% of their territory), had pre-emptively weeded out all my disloyal vassals then used a crusade to further solidify the loyalists love for me.  I saved up about 5000 gold and used 2000 of it over the course of my decade long war against the emperor.  I secured an alliance with the king of Bohemia to keep the emperor's most powerful vassal out of the war.

I probably could have gone sooner (about a decade after me the three duchy holding duke of Holland went independent) but I wasn't in a rush.  Being a vassal has it's advantages too and I didn't break free until I didn't have any need for the emperor anymore.

It's possible to get kingdom titles within the ERE, in particular Armenia and Syria.  Try securing one of those before making your move.

Historically there were numerous wars of independence by Italian dukes against the HRE in the game's timeframe.  They generally got crushed pretty hard.  If anything, I'd say the war was too easy.  I only occupied a handful of HRE counties and used patience, knowing that the AI dislikes surrendering quickly.

[Digital Hellhound]

Byzzie crown laws forbid vassal-on-vassal wars, so I'll have to try to marry my way into those. I did just witness a successful war to depose (the same as before, sprang up the second I peaced out, unsurprisingly) which lowered it to medium. Hopefully we can get another going to get it to low, which allows those. I lost all useful claims when my ruler died, though, and right now I'm having to play the worst duke I've had ever. When I started, I literally didn't have a single vassal with positive relations. For some reason, nobody still wanted to rebel, yelp.

How exactly did you secure an alliance with Bohemia? From what I saw, all alliances in the same realm were null and void once I declared war, and I couldn't call on any independent allies.

In other news, me and a buddy just wasted over an hour trying to get multiplayer working. We went through literally dozens of different checksums, and in the end I ended up screwing my game so badly I had to reinstall (we had edited the .txt files to allow female chancellor/steward/spymasters, and somehow, after a long series of events I won't bother to transcribe, my council events had bugged out). Yelp. Thankfully my saves didn't go anywhere.

[mainiac]

Well my main goal of the bohemian alliance was just to get him not to mobalize any levies against me.  I'm not sure if the AI actually cares if you are chummy but I didn't see any bohemian levies so I considered that a win.

Nobody wanting to rebel is one of the boni to being a vassal yourself.  I don't know why, but being independent seems to make them a lot more rebellious.  Maybe I'm just imagining that.

Building up your powerbase as a roman duke, I would recommend going outside the empire, not in it.  Holy wars are great and Syria is just begging for you to come liberate it from the heathens.  Yes it will take 30 years to consolidate your rule but you have a lovely and benevolent emperor who will guard you from foreign invasions.  Remember, a vassal relationship can be a very good thing.  I've seen the turks overrun a lot of Anatolia in many games which means you could be king of Armenia as well.

I also would say that as a roman duke/king you probably want to usurp the empire, not leave it.  The empire seems to get usurped a lot while people only leave the empire when said usurptions have left it weak.

[Rakonas]

I just married my grandsons daughter. All for the sake of keeping the bloodline pure of course .

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Only the daughter was inbred, surprisingly.

[Carcanken]

Is it possible to have a popup when a vassal rebels? Just lost an entire game over that... too used to Eu3 where it actually shows you.