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[scriver]

Apples and oranges. I like the supernatural events, but even I can see that is nonsense logic.

[MorleyDev]

Those are gameplay mechanics though, a representation of the world to the player, not narrative events happening to the character you are playing as.

Some people don't think explicitly supernatural things fit the narrative they're looking for when they play CK2. Personally I think if they're not going to be triggered by a player choice to go a supernatural route then they should be kept ambiguous (and creepy). Like, if Glitterhoof just turned up as an immortal horse god that'd not work. But getting there requires consciously choosing to do it, choosing to try and become immortal and then choosing to turn Glitterhoof immortal in an event.

[Cruxador]

Yeah, personally I want my medieval history game to be as accurate to medieval history as it can be. The supernatural stuff isn't necessarily bad, but it shouldn't be the base since it's purely inaccurate for the same of zany inaccuracy. Of course, the same can be said of the incest-loving features that Paradox added to some religions, and apparently they're sticking to their guns on that, at least for Zoroastrians.

CK2 had no supernatural events at the start either. The few events that broached it were all extremely ambiguous. I think that it's better to start with a clean slate when it comes to that and they maybe add it in expansions later on.

If I understood it correctly then the map covers about the same area as ck2's current one, plus a going a bit more south in Africa. Reasonably they want to fit in the southwestern parts of the Indian Ocean trade theatre. Kongo was mentioned somewhere. All feudal characters will be playable -- no certainty as to whether Muslims (or other non-European societies in general) count as Itqa, as in current ck2, or Feudal as they did in the earliest iterations of ck2.

And lastly I feel I must add but with great speculationty that I've somehow become inundated with the idea that they also were going further South East with the map. But I don't remember if this was speculation/interpretation on the forums or from an actual source, so I don't feel I can say it with pathos.

There's quite a bit more of Africa, it goes down to the Gold Coast now. So if you like West African history (I do) it'll be fun. The Congo is, I believe, the end or the "it stops before this" point.

Muslims all have the "clan" government, which is one of three playable government types (theocracies and republics presumably being non-playable government types) and they share it with other clannish societies such as Scottish highlanders. Feudalism and clans are different in that feudalism revolves around the feudal contract, which is followed absolutely, whereas in clans your vassals will give you more troops if they like you better. Related to this, they've mentioned that feudal vassals might want to renegotiate contracts while clan vassals might want to marry into the ruler's clan.

There was something said about having a bit more of Tibet, but I don't think it's a very big expansion there.

[Karnewarrior]

I don't quite understand CK2 players dislike of supernatural events.

For the greatest magical power that nobility has in CK2, is surely  their  omniscient and accurate  real-time geopolitical knowledge of the world, hundreds of years before the invention of approximately accurate maps, radio communication and the internet.     Not to mention  their  perfect knowledge of the personality traits, family trees, health and personal relationships of courtiers living thousands of miles away in remote dynasties in a level of detail that puts Facebook and Linked-in to shame.

The most egregious example of that to me is with China.
My capital is in Paris, but my territory extends far enough east that I can contact the Qi Emperor. Neat. But then I send a letter asking the emperor for a Master Engineer.

Three days later the guy arrives in my captial to build fireworks factories. Like, did he take the train? How the heck did a person move so fast?

Chinese teleporters, man. Master Ninja kickflipping skateboards through the urals to get to Europe. That's pretty much as zany as any hidden bears (which I have yet to see show up in my games.)

[Rince Wind]

3 days? Way slower than brides!

[Persus13]

I'm okay with that because travel time based on distance would slow the game down tremendously and make it extremely boring. That would be a mechanic that's straight out of free to play browser games with microtransactions to speed up your wait time.

Its the same reason why I'm okay with diplomats instantly making peace in EUIV instead of the war dragging on another 6 months while I wait for my diplomat to cross the Atlantic (and yes diplomats have a cool down, but the results are immediate).

Supernatural events are alright when they're ambiguous, but if I want to play with vampires and magic and immortal rulers, there's plenty of mods out there that do that already, and tons of other games that are magical medieval fantasy.

[birdy51]

I suppose you could consider the idea in reverse. The Emperor heard you were inquiring, and sent the man you needed several months ago. Likewise, your diplomats have been suing for peace the whole time. It's only now that they've finalized the paperwork.

[Egan_BW]

Heh, I think that realistic travel time for information and such would be an interesting mechanic.

[A Thing]

]There's quite a bit more of Africa, it goes down to the Gold Coast now. So if you like West African history (I do) it'll be fun. The Congo is, I believe, the end or the "it stops before this" point.

Muslims all have the "clan" government, which is one of three playable government types (theocracies and republics presumably being non-playable government types) and they share it with other clannish societies such as Scottish highlanders. Feudalism and clans are different in that feudalism revolves around the feudal contract, which is followed absolutely, whereas in clans your vassals will give you more troops if they like you better. Related to this, they've mentioned that feudal vassals might want to renegotiate contracts while clan vassals might want to marry into the ruler's clan.

There was something said about having a bit more of Tibet, but I don't think it's a very big expansion there.

Ah that's nice. I really enjoyed playing in Africa with the changes that came with Holy Fury. Nice to see that there will be more options for playing in Africa now. Clans also sound a bit better than Iqta from CK2 which from what I remember was just feudalism + Turkic succession (don't quote me on this but I think that was what the open succession was trying to simulate?) + being able to hold temples. Oh, yeah and decadence, but I think the new mechanics are supposed to simulate stuff like empires decaying anyway. No idea if the clan system is more accurate or not though.

Also, for some reason I got the "crazy fantasy stuff" (that I was more ehh on) mentioned in the repost conflated with the older and more ambiguous portal to hell and so on events that I liked from CK2. If it's just stuff like Satanism and immortality I don't really care if that's not in base.

Edit: actually is there a place where I can see the new map of Africa or where they talked about it? I see on the website they mention the game going down to Central Africa, but not much more.

Edit-2: Dev Diary 0 is out, seems to be just stuff we've already heard though?

[Cruxador]

Edit: actually is there a place where I can see the new map of Africa or where they talked about it? I see on the website they mention the game going down to Central Africa, but not much more.

Unless you get behind closed doors at the Paradox convention, there's no place that you can see it. But the discussion that I got that info from is in the reddit thread that Malus linked. Since it's from the guy who interviewed the head guy, it should be accurate.

[Karnewarrior]

Heh, I think that realistic travel time for information and such would be an interesting mechanic.

It would certainly make blobbing harder, if vassals on the other side of Europe could revolt and you'd only hear about it months later.

[lemon10]

Heh, I think that realistic travel time for information and such would be an interesting mechanic.

Yeah, it would be super interesting.

For instance if you have a super massive continent spanning empire and someone declares war on you, you wouldn't even notice for a month, until you receive the news and get an update that your far flung states already automatically raised armies and have been fighting off the invaders (or been utterly stomped), at which point you send your other armies over to the far flung province and then a month after they arrive you get an update on how the fighting progressed after sending the troops over.

And yeah, that would be super cool... but it would require the game being completely different and fundamentally change everything.
Obviously it could be done in far less impacting ways (eg. just make diplomatic things take *far* longer if the enemy is far away, so sure, they get notified as soon as you declare war and you can see everything in realtime like normal but it would take you like a month to actually declare war) but it would still require varying levels of "that's not how it works in the real world at all" if you don't go all the way, which would make going only part of the way problematic.

[hector13]

That wouldn’t be all that cool at all.

In one game I had, I started in Mali, with my capital in the Southwest corner of the map, and my empire stretched from there to Eastern Persia, sharing a border with another empire that controlled India and had broke out into Persia.

There were some border squabbles, and despite me being able to field 300k troops versus their 100k, the fact they’d be declaring war on me for those border provinces in the other half of the map would’ve probably resulted in me losing them before I knew I was at war.

Edge case, sure, and the only reason I had my empire out there was to stop the incessant Jihads from the two Muslim faiths, and I had no real desire to continue expanding, but it would have been annoying to have spent time (and a 30-year cooldown on Great Holy Wars!) to get the land to have it taken off me because camels are slow.

[Egan_BW]

thats how the empire crumbles, baby

[Kanil]

There are better ways to make large empires vulnerable than implementing some fantastically frustrating and incredibly complicated mechanic such as this, though.

It might be interesting, but it definitely doesn't sound fun.