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[Cruxador]

Characters level up

Thanks I hate it.

Well, I can't say I expected this.

I definitely can. CK2 has been in many ways their most successful single game, and it has been three expansions since they said that there were two or three expansions left.

It's not like Deus Vult being in the game or not is going to change any of that, though. Removing it's use in the proper historical context because of improper modern usage by a tiny fringe group doesn't exactly make much sense.

Yeah, what's more important is the reason on Paradox's part. They chose to affirm right wing fringe groups by calling them important enough to base this policy on, providing support for those groups propaganda narratives. Who actually used "deus vult" in a hateful way before? I don't know, I only ever heard it in a joking or historical context before, but now apparently it's a Thing. So why would Paradox do that? Either they actually support these groups but pretend not to for marketing reasons and want to lend them a hand, they figure that it doesn't really matter compared to the potential marketing boost of causing a controversy, or they are just completely incompetent and think it's worth it to curry favor with whatever uneducated Twitter goblins would, upon hearing such a phrase at the start of a crusade in a game called Crusader Kings, think that it isn't in reference to the crusades but instead is in reference to unrelated modern people making reference to the crusades. I feel like the last one is all but impossible given that Paradox is a big successful company full of thinking individuals, at least some of whom must meet a certain baseline for human competence, which means that this is essentially Paradox choosing to support nazis for the sake of marketing.

[scriver]

Characters level up

Thanks I hate it.

To expand on one thing that has come to mind since I first heard this (and my gut uncertainty of whether it's a good thing), one thing it'll come down to is whether or not they allow control of the paths your children and/or siblings (and other relevant characters) take. If anyone has played Total Warhammer, you know how annoying it is when you subsume another faction and their lords (or worse, their unique legendary lords) have all invested all their level ups in the wrong things. Imagine when you play CK3 and when your only son and last hope for the dynasty inherits the kingdom and he is already level 6/10 but have bought traits all over the place, one in being useless, another in being a halfwit, and three in being a disappointment. Horrible.

On the other hand, imagine if your 52 year old son inherits after a long reign and then has no levels -- and not enough time left in this world to gain any either. Sure, he has 23 Martial and has been your main general his whole adult life, but what does that matter?

Sure, there's little reason to assume it will be bad implementation. But it does feel a lot more gamey than CK2's system, and there's a big risk in going there.

[Cruxador]

Characters level up

Thanks I hate it.

To expand on one thing that has come to mind since I first heard this (and my gut uncertainty of whether it's a good thing), one thing it'll come down to is whether or not they allow control of the paths your children and/or siblings (and other relevant characters) take. If anyone has played Total Warhammer, you know how annoying it is when you subsume another faction and their lords (or worse, their unique legendary lords) have all invested all their level ups in the wrong things. Imagine when you play CK3 and when your only son and last hope for the dynasty inherits the kingdom and he is already level 6/10 but have bought traits all over the place, one in being useless, another in being a halfwit, and three in being a disappointment. Horrible.

On the other hand, imagine if your 52 year old son inherits after a long reign and then has no levels -- and not enough time left in this world to gain any either. Sure, he has 23 Martial and has been your main general his whole adult life, but what does that matter?

Sure, there's little reason to assume it will be bad implementation. But it does feel a lot more gamey than CK2's system, and there's a big risk in going there.

On a fundamental level, a level system is bad because it means people are good at stuff because they're powerful, rather than powerful because they're good at stuff. When I saw the ability trees, I assumed they were per attribute, not level based, and figured that was tentatively reasonable. But having just one "power" track only makes sense if there's just one kind of power thats far more meaningful than any other. In standard RPGs, that's your personal combat might, so levels are fine. But in CK2, that isn't even close to being the case. Each attribute relates to a whole different aspect of the game. And since they're independent of each other, balance between them isn't that big of a deal.

[Teneb]

3rd edition is definitely my favorite time period, but how do you plan on dealing with the Spellplague? It's pretty soon after your game start and would logically have a very big impact when it hits. Not to mention how unpopular it was with fans...is it going to be some sort of black plague event? An optional toggle like Sunset Invasion?

I would they just... rather not. At all.

We are still discussing the particulars, but it will be partially represented. I say partially because we can't change the map during play.

The default bookmark is not exactly 3e, though, since that would be 1375 instead of 1360.

[ZeroGravitas]

They released some kind of bi-weekly challenges in CK2 to get points for cosmetic unlocks in CK3 - https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/index.php?threads/crusader-kings-ii-introducing-the-monarchs-journey-questions-thread.1262070/

For the first one, it sounds like this:

So, you open ck2, there's a featured character at a specific bookmark you can play. Right now it's Konan of Brittany in 1066. There are some challenges to complete with that character/dynasty (Ironman not required, steam connection is). When completed, those challenges give points which tally up to unlock cosmetics for your account if/when you play ckIII at whatever time it comes out.

So, at time of posting, Konan of Brittany's challenges are to have 2 sons. He has to do this himself, not the rest of the dynasty, this gives 2 points. If you have a third son, you get 2 more, and you have five sons, you get another 2 points. There is a challenge for any member of the dynasty to kill members of William de Normandie's/William the Conqueror's dynasty. Again, three levels of rewards for killing more members of the dynasty. 2 points per stage, again. (I forget how many exactly you need to kill.) And there is a challenge to amass land in Brittany, Anjou, Normandy, England and Wales. More land, more points. Three stages again. The second two challenges don't require you to be Konan to complete them, you just have to start as him and continue as his dynasty.

If all challenges are fully completed, that's 18 points you can earn. The first unlock requires 10 points. A wizard beard. It's honestly all fairly apparent in game, but hope that helps.

[Cruxador]

I guess they're going all in on the f2p aspect.

[scriver]

Sigh. This is what happens when you go public I guess.

[TamerVirus]

Only a matter of time before Crusader Kings gacha with SSR Karloman (Immortal) at .2% pull rate

[CABL]

I mean, it's all earned in-game, and there's no MTX shop, so... *shrug*

[Malus]

On a fundamental level, a level system is bad because it means people are good at stuff because they're powerful, rather than powerful because they're good at stuff. When I saw the ability trees, I assumed they were per attribute, not level based, and figured that was tentatively reasonable. But having just one "power" track only makes sense if there's just one kind of power thats far more meaningful than any other. In standard RPGs, that's your personal combat might, so levels are fine. But in CK2, that isn't even close to being the case. Each attribute relates to a whole different aspect of the game. And since they're independent of each other, balance between them isn't that big of a deal.

It does look like each "skill tree" has its own kind of XP, so there's not just one power level that ranks up over time. Someone on the Paradox forums related it to the Way of Life focuses but with bonuses for trucking along one path for a while. In the interview they were pretty specific about "leveling up your characters" but I don't think it's classical RPG style leveling, at least not from what we've seen.

[scriver]

Only a matter of time before Crusader Kings gacha with SSR Karloman (Immortal) at .2% pull rate

Speaking of immortality, I started up a Konan game and guess what event line I got.

[TamerVirus]

Chess with death? 
_{I hate chess with death...}

I’ve never gotten a successful immortal quest. Every time it’s done it’s some fraud who ends up dead in my dungeon

[ZeroGravitas]

I've done it, like, twice. Only played about a thousand hours since that patch, though.

[scriver]

I'm pretty sure my mystic was a fake one, unfortunately. I died a lot.

[Kanil]

Typically, if I want to play as an immortal I just fire the event with the console and save scum through the whole process until it works.

The only time I've legitimately had it work was in my most recent game, where the event popped up and I figured it was a good way to get rid of my infirm 62 year old slightly ahead of schedule. Naturally the mystic wasn't a fraud, and my guy succeeded at all the challenges and became immortal, only to kill himself 3 years later, because he had the misfortune of being player controlled and I wanted him dead, damnit.

The bloodline impresses the Chinese princesses though.