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[scourge728]

The army stuff, that was where I stopped in the tutorial

[Dorsidwarf]

Combat really just consists of "try to have a good army, put the best commanders into it then trick the enemy into attacking at a disadvantage"

[USEC_OFFICER]

Unless you want to do something funky with retinues of course. But doing funky things with retinues is not required in any way whatsoever.

That said, if the combat system annoys you due to being so simple then I understand. The game is more focused on being a fedual lord and your interpersonal relationships than bashing armies together and ending up on top. _{I prefer it over how EUIV and Vicky 2 handle combat though.}

[Cruxador]

The army stuff, that was where I stopped in the tutorial

But, you just click where you want them to go and they go there and if they meet an enemy they fight. What could be annoying about that? It's barely even a system, except under the hood.

[Rockeater]

The army stuff, that was where I stopped in the tutorial

Wass it just me, or that taking over the caneries islands was almost impossible in the tutarial

[Rolan7]

The army stuff, that was where I stopped in the tutorial

But, you just click where you want them to go and they go there and if they meet an enemy they fight. What could be annoying about that? It's barely even a system, except under the hood.

Maybe the rules about where the armies appear?  Those can be confusing, I guess, particularly vassal armies.

I think it's pretty smooth for a 4X, though.  I threw up my hands around that point in the EU tutorial, heh.

The army stuff, that was where I stopped in the tutorial

Was it just me, or that taking over the canaries islands was almost impossible in the tutorial

It's been so long since I did the tutorial, I don't remember.  But I recommend letting that tutorial walk one through the mechanics, then quitting out and launching a 1066 Ireland character.  The "Tutorial Island" meme persists for good reason.  It has neighboring family members, thus claims.  Small scale which is relatively uncomplicated.

It's kinda easy if you borrow money and hire mercenaries, and has a clear goal of forming the tiny kingdom.

[scourge728]

I don't recall exactly what bothered me but I think it was related to my time playing civ 5

[IronyOwl]

Probably the uninteractivity, then. In Civ5 you can bop against the enemy army, retreat to higher ground, retreat to cities, bop against them some more, level your units, and generally sometimes do some things against a superior force. In ck2 bopping is massively damaging, high ground doesn't do a great deal, cities don't do anything, your forces never get stronger, and generally the higher numbers just win.

Put another way, ck2 combat is almost entirely strategic- building up large forces, gaining alliances, striking at the right time. Civ5 combat is also fairly strategic, but very tactical as well.

[scourge728]

That, and the fact that I don't really play real time strategy games probably didn't help

[Loud Whispers]

From personal experience, the beginning is where everyone's nice to one another.

Once people are capable of messing with each other directly (primarily because their borders are close), THAT'S when things start going downhill.

True. I am now at the point where both of my friends, despite publicly supporting me claiming the Byzantines, have both been caught either assassinating all of the Emperors who would have given me the Byzantine Empire, or assassinated my heirs poised to take the Byzantine Empire. As we approach the end of the date and are preparing to convert to EU4, the German foreign policy is incoherent and the British are already asserting their claim to the entire New World and the Indian Ocean trade - the Germans ominously say they are only interested in maintaining the security of Europe. Despite being betrayed by both the Germans and the British, I have in turn made a secret pact with the Germans to maintain the Indian ocean trade to benefit their control of Genoa and my control of Constantinople, if they will in turn destroy the British control of France and challenge their grip on the New World. Despite all of my attempts to negotiate solutions which benefit everyone, my friends have consistently taken every solution where everyone gains and instead made the actions which give them everything. Subsequently I have adjusted and rescinded my conciliatory gestures and have upfront confronted them all on infringing upon my spheres of influence, betraying their word, harming the Greek speaking peoples of the Balkans and Baltics e.t.c., and they have both responded well to my 90,000 troops

Still, I wish I had at least 1 Methuselah in my game. I just realised my friends are absolute opportunists and there's going to be 3 more games of real politik

[EnigmaticHat]

I remember when my tutorial island game saw me with Ireland, 2/3rds of England, the Kingdom of Aquitaine, and Sicily... all but Ireland obtained through marriage or crusade contributions.

[scourge728]

My thoughts on the tutorial, now that I've started it again: It just feels slow

[hector13]

You can speed the game up, though how fast it goes depends on how good your computer is...

[Cruxador]

From personal experience, the beginning is where everyone's nice to one another.

Once people are capable of messing with each other directly (primarily because their borders are close), THAT'S when things start going downhill.

True. I am now at the point where both of my friends, despite publicly supporting me claiming the Byzantines, have both been caught either assassinating all of the Emperors who would have given me the Byzantine Empire, or assassinated my heirs poised to take the Byzantine Empire. As we approach the end of the date and are preparing to convert to EU4, the German foreign policy is incoherent and the British are already asserting their claim to the entire New World and the Indian Ocean trade - the Germans ominously say they are only interested in maintaining the security of Europe. Despite being betrayed by both the Germans and the British, I have in turn made a secret pact with the Germans to maintain the Indian ocean trade to benefit their control of Genoa and my control of Constantinople, if they will in turn destroy the British control of France and challenge their grip on the New World. Despite all of my attempts to negotiate solutions which benefit everyone, my friends have consistently taken every solution where everyone gains and instead made the actions which give them everything. Subsequently I have adjusted and rescinded my conciliatory gestures and have upfront confronted them all on infringing upon my spheres of influence, betraying their word, harming the Greek speaking peoples of the Balkans and Baltics e.t.c., and they have both responded well to my 90,000 troops

Still, I wish I had at least 1 Methuselah in my game. I just realised my friends are absolute opportunists and there's going to be 3 more games of real politik

Well, if you were all engaged in jolly cooperation against the AI, the game would be easy, after all.

[Digital Hellhound]

All my multiplayer games have been jolly cooperative affairs against the AI, and they’re pretty fun (and not necessarily at all easy). There’s still plenty of salt, of course, and usually a point where said cooperation becomes veeeery strained. Usually when your only routes of expansion are other players or their targets.

Paradox games generally offer enough AI blobs to give you a reason to cooperate, so it’s all good. I have fond memories of a EU3 game where the lot of us grew from minors to world-spanning empires while working together to topple Austria, the Big Blue Blob and the rest.