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Author Topic: Crusader Kings 2 is released.  (Read 2125459 times)

Cruxador

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Re: Crusader Kings 2 is released.
« Reply #13770 on: September 21, 2018, 04:30:34 pm »

I still hope for a bit more of content: proper landless, theocracies maybe...
Those are both confirmed to never be in. There's both engine limitations and scope conflicts.

Considering they're cleaning up on everything they've said they wanted to do, I'll be incredibly surprised if Holy Fury isn't the last DLC.
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Descan

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Re: Crusader Kings 2 is released.
« Reply #13771 on: September 21, 2018, 08:19:11 pm »

I still hope for a bit more of content: proper landless, theocracies maybe...
Those are both confirmed to never be in. There's both engine limitations and scope conflicts.

Considering they're cleaning up on everything they've said they wanted to do, I'll be incredibly surprised if Holy Fury isn't the last DLC.
See my post regarding both of those things you just said. Like riiiiight at the very top of that post.
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Teneb

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Re: Crusader Kings 2 is released.
« Reply #13772 on: September 25, 2018, 09:39:58 am »

Patch notes for a small update released.

It literally just fixes an AI bug that prevented characters from raiding and also updates the converter to the EU4 Mughal patch (so it won't work yet).
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EnigmaticHat

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Re: Crusader Kings 2 is released.
« Reply #13773 on: September 25, 2018, 04:07:33 pm »

-snip-
The CK2 concept of a court doesn't really do justice to how big and political an Emperor's court could be.  If they want to do the Byzantine and Chinese Empires right, they'd need systems to support a court that's much heavier in landless characters.  And landless characters who have more agency at that.  And also have positions of actual authority held by landless people...

My understanding is that the Chinese Empire of the time would effectively have one really, really giant court where everyone is fighting for access to the Emperor.  There's also the way Chinese succession worked

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Cruxador

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Re: Crusader Kings 2 is released.
« Reply #13774 on: September 25, 2018, 05:13:10 pm »

Well they did have more normal heredity within dynasties, the emperor would have to lose the mandate of heaven before someone else could get it, it's not like you could just kill the emperor and sit on his throne and expect to take his position without a great big war, and even then you'd expect to lose control over outlying areas.

And China very much did splinter and collapse in a matter of generations as well. The idea that there's only ever been one China is essentially propaganda by recent centuries of Chinese nations who can no longer rule by right of being the emperors due to not being that kind of government.
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ChairmanPoo

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Re: Crusader Kings 2 is released.
« Reply #13775 on: September 25, 2018, 05:14:02 pm »

@Descan: I dont think that's true. Mongols assimilated to Chinese culture because most nomad invaders largely assimilate to the places  they settle down. The same thing happened with the goths.. and the Normans too, who were French-assimilated peoples in the firsr place and in turn assimilated to English, Irish, and Scottish peoples
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EnigmaticHat

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Re: Crusader Kings 2 is released.
« Reply #13776 on: September 25, 2018, 11:39:49 pm »

Well they did have more normal heredity within dynasties, the emperor would have to lose the mandate of heaven before someone else could get it, it's not like you could just kill the emperor and sit on his throne and expect to take his position without a great big war, and even then you'd expect to lose control over outlying areas.

And China very much did splinter and collapse in a matter of generations as well. The idea that there's only ever been one China is essentially propaganda by recent centuries of Chinese nations who can no longer rule by right of being the emperors due to not being that kind of government.
Assassinating him and sitting on his throne, no.  But if you take over China via war, by definition the emperor has lost the mandate of heaven.  Because how could anyone with the support of the gods lose?  In the case of natural disasters or a terrible ruler, some people might think that means he's lost the mandate and take it as an opportunity to rebel.  You don't actually know until you see if the rebels win tho.  Because if the emperor manages to defeat a rebellion, by definition the gods supported him over the rebels.  Whoever holds the throne deserves the throne, that's what the mandate means.  Its part of the Confucian ethic of loyalty and obedience.  Under Confucianism, the only time you're supposed to rise up against your rulers is if they're terrible, not merely bad.  The mandate justifies this doctrine by providing a blanket explanation for why any ruler should be obeyed.

As for China splintering, you're not wrong.  It gets down to definition of what "China" is, I guess.  Was China before the Three Kingdoms Period and after it, for example, the same continuous nation state that temporarily underwent civil war, or two separate things sharing a name?  I would count it as continuous but that's debatable.

@Descan: I dont think that's true. Mongols assimilated to Chinese culture because most nomad invaders largely assimilate to the places  they settle down. The same thing happened with the goths.. and the Normans too, who were French-assimilated peoples in the firsr place and in turn assimilated to English, Irish, and Scottish peoples
IMO you have that backwards.  The Goths (and other "barbarian" migrants/invaders) effectively supplanted Roman culture throughout most of Europe and then turned around and pretended their civilization was descended from the Roman one.  The Normans effectively destroyed Anglo-Saxon culture after their invasion.  Then they tried to erase Irish culture in the same way, but failed because their first wave of lords assimilated and learned Gaellic.  Then they tried to cut out the middleman and just wipe out the Irish.

I would also point out that the Mongols adopted local culture pretty much nowhere except China.  The closest they came was to adopt a hands off approach to governing some of their territories, but in those cases it was locals who were doing most of the ruling.
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ChairmanPoo

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Re: Crusader Kings 2 is released.
« Reply #13777 on: September 26, 2018, 01:23:25 am »

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IMO you have that backwards. 
NO U

Quote
The Goths (and other "barbarian" migrants/invaders) effectively supplanted Roman culture throughout most of Europe and then turned around and pretended their civilization was descended from the Roman one.
They very much asimilated. They adapted Roman religion, language, customs, and trappings. Bear in mind that most of those territories are still speaking debased forms of latin as well
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The Normans effectively destroyed Anglo-Saxon culture after their invasion
I'm not as familiar with the normans as the others, but the British are certainly not speaking French today, and indeed a quick skim of the wiki (and no I'm not going to look for primary sources for the purpose of this discussion) suggests that they merged in England just as they did in Ireland. And just as their ancestors did in the first place when they settled in France
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CABL

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Re: Crusader Kings 2 is released.
« Reply #13778 on: September 26, 2018, 04:24:25 am »

I just got that event where you give love poetry to your waifu, and she gets +10% fertility and a Lustful trait for additional +25%.

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scriver

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Re: Crusader Kings 2 is released.
« Reply #13779 on: September 26, 2018, 05:39:13 am »

Normans didn't integrate into Anglo-Saxon society very much at all, they practically displaced Anglo culture completely. It's just that they didn't displace the entire Anglo-Saxon society, just one strata of it - nobility and government/state. So the displacement only happened in regards to that. Which is why the modern English language is still basically French with a twist in those areas as well.
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ChairmanPoo

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Re: Crusader Kings 2 is released.
« Reply #13780 on: September 26, 2018, 08:06:00 am »

...it doesnt look like French at all to me :|  I've always seen English as a simplified German. It's specially obvious in Old English I think
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Rince Wind

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Re: Crusader Kings 2 is released.
« Reply #13781 on: September 26, 2018, 08:10:25 am »

It is also obvious in some Low-German dialects which are surprisingly similar to English. They are also spoken in the regions where the Angles and the Saxons came from.
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Teneb

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Re: Crusader Kings 2 is released.
« Reply #13782 on: September 26, 2018, 08:37:18 am »

English is a West Germanic language, after all.

And seriously, it's nothing at all like French aside from some words copied wholesale. I've attempted to learn French (and walked away only knowing how to read it, and even then not that well) and it's not like English.
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scriver

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Re: Crusader Kings 2 is released.
« Reply #13783 on: September 26, 2018, 08:50:50 am »

Seriously, this isn't something I've made up. Here, have a link that I've only briefly skimmed through and haven't checked the sources of so I have no idea if it reliable or not or even supports what I said but it was the second or third result when I googled so yeah.
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ZeroGravitas

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Re: Crusader Kings 2 is released.
« Reply #13784 on: September 26, 2018, 08:58:26 am »

Seriously, this isn't something I've made up. Here, have a link that I've only briefly skimmed through and haven't checked the sources of so I have no idea if it reliable or not or even supports what I said but it was the second or third result when I googled so yeah.

yes, but what that's saying is mostly a matter of vocabulary in specific subjects. most english words, especially basic words (core vocabulary), are germanic (sun is "sonne", father is "vater" etc). grammatically, english is a germanic language with latin influences. its closest extant relative is probably flemish.
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