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[Descan]

So I'm a little pissed off. For the third time, a game where I go from Tribal/Nomad to Merchant Republic (in Ironman because reasons) has been destroyed because the game decides I don't actually NEED to be a MR, I can go feudal. Oh, what's that, you actually want to be a republic? Hah, fuck you, there's no going back!

This time it was cuz I lost an election and the new doge decided my shit was shiny and to take it. So when I said "Uh, no, fuck you buddy," I get booted over to Feudal and I don't get turned back into a patrician when I won the war.

That's nice. That's great. Thaaaat's lovely. Third times the charm! Fuck.

[Ehndras]

Yeah, you can't "become" a Patrician. Once you go Feudal, you can't go back. Well... Technically you CAN...

[Descan]

There's no real legitimate way, no decision to "reform the republic" or anything like that. I THINK if you're inherited by a MR of your dynasty, that'll make you a MR again? Not really sure. But regardless, it's not exactly a legit way. In my view, at least.

I wouldn't mind it [as much, it'd still be a bit annoying] if the game didn't shove you to Feudal at the drop of a hat. Revolt? Feudal. Lose your capital? Feudal. Declare war to take back the republic? Feudal. That last one I can *kinda* see, the idea that you're destroying the whole "republic" part by warring over the title. But a) Venice (i.e. the Ur Merchant Republic) and especially Genoa had plenty of wars over the title, and they didn't suddenly become a King. b) The game doesn't TELL you that it'll become feudal if you war over the title. And c) I still hold mostly cities, and all my counties are city-capitaled (only some Baronys in the capital of the republic for troops) so that's really annoying, suddenly I'm weak as shit because I hold "wrong holdings" because suddenly feudal.

Honestly, republics should be overhauled.

The patricians should be unhooked from the title of the republic and become their own "government" which is linked to a republic. With the added benefit that a house of merchants that gets fucked over can flee to a different republic, because they're not intrinsic TO that republic, they're free-form; They could even seek refuge in a noblemans hall, where they give technology and cash from their trading posts in exchange for refuge! And they can retain their trading posts when they flee, with a bonus to retention chance if they have garrisons in the posts (Hey, it gives you a reason beyond some small bonus to retinue to build garrisons that way ;P)

Add in a more floating number of merchant houses instead of the "you get five" thing we have now, with a total limit of like. 10? After which the republic is too full to add any more. Add in a *bit* more infighting and a natural level of "we don't want more houses" happens, because the cost of fighting is worse than the bonus of more trade posts. That way, houses can jump between them as they get pushed out and you could get random events for a new house to form as some merchant gets cash and can build a dynastic house.

Make the technologies apply to the house instead of the province, so a merchant republic can "bring knowledge to Europe" if they get exiled (read: not suddenly have a tech score of 1 in Trading and can't actually DO anything any more) with a bonus to tech in the province they're exiled to. Plus, you can have scheming to acquire plans and documents between houses if they all have their own tech level! This is already sorta possible; Nomadic rulers have their tech apply to their capital camp, not to any specific province, so it's not unworkable.

And finally: Republican Tradition. Bring that in, from EU3/4. The more wars are fought by the patricians for the title, the lower tradition. The more a single house is elected, the lower the tradition. Add in a "Republican Dictatorship" transitional government, which is identical to a Merchant Republic except that upon death of the ruler, unless it's to a different merchant house, it becomes a feudal monarchy or iqta or whatever it should be. THAT way you get the whole "You're not REALLY a republic any more, are you?" without it feeling or BEING a bug, like happens now.

Maybe every ruler gets a tab like the MR tab, and for nonMR rulers, it lists the merchant houses (in the world? or just in their realm?) with a section specifically for those in your court. (If just in your realm, then a ledger page for the whole worlds merchant houses would be in order)

I feel like all of that would make playing a merchant house a lot more fun and less excruciating. Especially if they fix the bugs too.
 ;P Plus, it feels more natural this way; You don't just suddenly "oh hey here's 4 random houses" when you create a merchant republic, they're already extant and generated by random events in the world as rich merchants become dynastic and work for their noble lords, seeking a republic to work and live in and acquire power for themselves. And it makes interaction with a republic as a noble lord more fun, instead of just "make republic -> get money."

(and a bit more ideas I kinda forgot while typing as new ideas kept popping up, this is really off the cuff so feel free to poke holes in it)

[Rolan7]

And finally: Republican Tradition. Bring that in, from EU3/4. The more wars are fought by the patricians for the title, the lower tradition. The more a single house is elected, the lower the tradition. Add in a "Republican Dictatorship" transitional government, which is identical to a Merchant Republic except that upon death of the ruler, unless it's to a different merchant house, it becomes a feudal monarchy or iqta or whatever it should be. THAT way you get the whole "You're not REALLY a republic any more, are you?" without it feeling or BEING a bug, like happens now.

I like the technology stuff too, but particularly this.  It'd be nice to have an in-game reason to let other houses win elections.  It's not like there's nothing to do while out of power, particularly with Way of Life and such.  I just want an excuse.

Of course the main problem with letting anyone else win is that they'll generally transfer some of my trade posts for my being ahead.  It's incredibly frustrating, but maybe I can learn to live with it...  It's theoretically benefiting the Republic, after all, by freeing up my trade post limit.  Maddening, though!

[Loud Whispers]

Can patricians still do ridiculous stuff like steal all of your trading posts which you can't steal back even if you become patrician?

[Cruxador]

Problem is, the Republic is pretty much abandoned due to being shittily coded. They're not going to do anything with it except the absolute minimum to keep it from imploding.

[Rolan7]

Can patricians still do ridiculous stuff like steal all of your trading posts which you can't steal back even if you become patrician?

Last I checked...  But I *think* that's because the Doge can do that to any family that has too much of a lead in trade posts.  Which is nearly always going to be the player.

I may be giving too much benefit of the doubt, heh.  Something I'd prefer is for the Doge to only do that when you've exceeded your trade post limit- Like when your stewardship is lower (due to succession) or you have less male heirs for a while.  At some point I just stop making new ones and let my limit droop, yet all my trade posts work fine.  Those understaffed trade posts are valid targets for seizing, IMO.

In fact, I'd kinda like more cooperative options with other houses.  I'd like them to benefit the greater republic more, and for there to be more ways to aid them in turn.

[IronyOwl]

And finally: Republican Tradition. Bring that in, from EU3/4. The more wars are fought by the patricians for the title, the lower tradition. The more a single house is elected, the lower the tradition. Add in a "Republican Dictatorship" transitional government, which is identical to a Merchant Republic except that upon death of the ruler, unless it's to a different merchant house, it becomes a feudal monarchy or iqta or whatever it should be. THAT way you get the whole "You're not REALLY a republic any more, are you?" without it feeling or BEING a bug, like happens now.

I like the technology stuff too, but particularly this.  It'd be nice to have an in-game reason to let other houses win elections.  It's not like there's nothing to do while out of power, particularly with Way of Life and such.  I just want an excuse.

This would be really cool, yeah. You could use similar concepts to get some fascinating quirks or mechanics for other situations, too. If your councillors/commanders/honorary title-bearers are routinely the best men for the job, you become more meritocratic and people start getting angrier when you're less meritocratic. If they're usually your landed vassals you become more elitist and your landed vassals take not being on the council more seriously. If they're usually your dynasty you become more nepotistic and your family starts grousing if they're not taken care of.

If they really wanted to be fancy, they could tie these to cultures or titles complete with de jure shift, so if you're insufficiently Frenchy or Duchy-of-Courland-like, your subjects grumble and you start putting pressure on the definition of French or Duchy of Courland, shifting them more towards yourself and/or breaking off into your own subculture/territorial expectations with blackjack and hookers.

Don't even get me started on how cool this would make religions and their heresies.

Of course the main problem with letting anyone else win is that they'll generally transfer some of my trade posts for my being ahead.  It's incredibly frustrating, but maybe I can learn to live with it...  It's theoretically benefiting the Republic, after all, by freeing up my trade post limit.  Maddening, though!

I could probably live with it if it made any kind of overall sense. Trying to even out trade value into coherent family areas- probably weighted by land holdings, if any, in said areas- would be a decent reason for seizing posts and giving them to somebody else. Grabbing two random posts for themselves because lol equality ruins everything for you and only marginally benefits them.

[Justin]

anyone down for a game tonite or tomorrow?

[scriver]

I just finished the "A Servant No More" achievement. Managed to grow back my genitals and made two of my wives pregnant, and had just got in contact with the mystic in the eternal life questline when I died from old age, childless. Oh well. Satan gives, and Satan takes away.

[ZeroGravitas]

I just finished the "A Servant No More" achievement. Managed to grow back my genitals and made two of my wives pregnant, and had just got in contact with the mystic in the eternal life questline when I died from old age, childless. Oh well. Satan gives, and Satan takes away.

well, at least you got the achievement, huh?

[Ehndras]

So, fun fact- the AI takes no consideration, both for the purposes of choosing heritage education focus and switching to (via targetted decision) heritage education focus, some common sense stuff. For choosing the focus in the first place, it only does so if the ward is not the right culture/religion; it does not check if the educator is the right culture/religion. For the targetted decision, it checks if the educator is a different religion/culture. It does not check whether the educator is the same religion/focus as the person asking for the culture conversion.

Any time you see a Jewish HRE, a Taoist ERE, or other such nonsense, this is why.
[/quote

I weaponize the living hell out of this. Whatever religion I play, I invite the heirs to every region/realm I can, kidnap those I can't, and brainwash them all into joining. If I can educate their kids, I make them my culture too.

Norse-Jews, Norse-Shia, Norse-Zoroastrians, Norse-West Africans, etc, etc, etc.

[scriver]

If I get the guilt tripping response from confronting my wife about pregnancies, does that have to mean they cheated on me, or can it happen anyway? I am Paranoid and she got pregnant like 2 months into the game, so I have my doubts she had time to get a lover. But I've don't think I've ever gotten the guilt trip in cases it wasn't cheating.

[Teneb]

If I get the guilt tripping response from confronting my wife about pregnancies, does that have to mean they cheated on me, or can it happen anyway? I am Paranoid and she got pregnant like 2 months into the game, so I have my doubts she had time to get a lover. But I've don't think I've ever gotten the guilt trip in cases it wasn't cheating.

It can happen anyway, and paranoid makes it exceptionally likely. That said, unless you want to pass on traits like strong or genius, or are roleplaying, it's usually not worth confronting her because an heir is an heir.

[hector13]

I think it happened ‘cause you’re paranoid. I get that a lot when my character is paranoid.

Doesn’t really matter unless you want genetic traits though.

Or ninjas.