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[Grim Portent]

So I'm learning that the Aztecs are insanely broken to play as. Their Invasion casus belli is basically a Crusade that takes longer, costs 500 prestige and can be waged as much as you want.

Provided you can overpower your enemy and siege all their holdings you can take all their land in one go, even if it's outside the de jure lands you're targeting. I took all of Hispania and most of Marrakech in one war targeted at Andalusia by grinding through the Ummayyad's lands over the course of about 11 years with my retinue and a vassal Holy Order.

It's not even year 900 yet and already I don't think there's anything left that poses a threat to me other than my more rebellious family members.

The Abassids exploded after a decadence revolt, and the Byzantines are being eaten alive by a Shia Caliphate centered out of Jerusalem. They've already lost all of Anatolia and the Shiites still have a lot of event troops from their initial uprising against the Sunnis.

[Loud Whispers]

Bad? That's the most beautiful goddamn thing I ever seen.
Pity the Mongol AI never bothers to invade India. Sure, it wouldn't be historical, but neither is Mongol Scandinavia.
I think the early arrival is because of the (default?) Game Rules setting for them, which has them appear 200 years from the start of your game.

Mongols did invade India, they got repelled and didn't bother with more attempts. Don't think CK2 would be able to model repelling the Mongols, as everything the Mongols touch turns to salt

[Persus13]

Invasions are a thing that all pagans have access to, I'm pretty sure.

[Grim Portent]

Invasions are a thing that all pagans have access to, I'm pretty sure.

Nope, just Aztecs as part of the whole Sunset Invasion thing.

The other pagans just get their once per life Subjugation against other pagans, their Conquests and the Norse get the Prepared Invasion, which is a different thing with a lot of prerequisites. Other than that it's just Great Holy Wars, normal claims, de jure claims and Holy Wars.

I think the Nomad invasion is similar, but I can't remember if theirs also ousts the residents of every conquered holding or just vassalises them. Regardless, they have a lot of conditions to meet to be allowed to use it.

EDIT: Apparently pagans of the Altaic or Magyar culture groups also get it.

[umiman]

Invasions are a thing that all pagans have access to, I'm pretty sure.

Nope, just Aztecs as part of the whole Sunset Invasion thing.

The other pagans just get their once per life Subjugation against other pagans, their Conquests and the Norse get the Prepared Invasion, which is a different thing with a lot of prerequisites. Other than that it's just Great Holy Wars, normal claims, de jure claims and Holy Wars.

I think the Nomad invasion is similar, but I can't remember if theirs also ousts the residents of every conquered holding or just vassalises them. Regardless, they have a lot of conditions to meet to be allowed to use it.

EDIT: Apparently pagans of the Altaic or Magyar culture groups also get it.

The nomads have it. It's how I conquered the world. Just conquer everything then sue for peace. Then keep doing it over and over again.

[Grim Portent]

Wiki says the Nomads get the Nomad Invasion casus belli not the Invasion casus belli. Works the same but the Nomad one requires your population be at 90% of it's maximum first.

[umiman]

Wiki says the Nomads get the Nomad Invasion casus belli not the Invasion casus belli. Works the same but the Nomad one requires your population be at 90% of it's maximum first.

It's extremely easy to meet that criteria.  It's so easy in fact that you will actually be invading people just to shut your vassal khans up.

Also nomads are several factors more potent for world domination than the Aztecs. For one they basically have unlimited demense. Their armies are permanent, affordable hordes of retinues consisting of the best unit in the game. They will basically never have random rebellions due to there being no holdings in their land. Also you can actually play as them in an Ironman game.

Playing as the nomads is basically extreme ezmode.

[hector13]

There's no easy way to hand out holdings though, if you're like me and expand expand expand and keep all the holdings with buildings 'cause your vassals are too stupid to pillage them, meaning you do get minor clan uprisings which are nasty if you do them legit and don't cheese out by surrendering.

Not that I ever do them legit... but then you have unhappy person with large horde, who tends to immediately join the "replace Khan" and/or "Independece" factions.

[umiman]

Why not just burn them to the ground instead of keeping them?

[hector13]

That's what a I do, pillaging does that. Then you get more land which pisses off your khans 'cause they're all "we're living in horseshit, give us more land for pasture or whatever" and there's no way to give out vast swathes of it at once, and it doesn't appear to be organized in any particular order to hand it all out in the diplomacy menu.

There was a picture a few posts back about AI Mongols doing something. That's basically all the land I have too, and I need to hand out about 30 odd counties, and I'd like for 'em to be handed out in de jure realms... except even checking the "and all lower titles" thing doesn't work, just gives them the county I'm giving them, and maybe the titles - it has been a while - but no other land.

Pain in the arse, but even if all my khans gang up on me I've got 100+k guys on them.

[Descan]

... i mean i played a horde in my Zunist Persia game (which, yes, as a pecheneg reformed pagan, i was able to invade the same as the aztecs) and i just paused the game and handed out titles en masse when i conquered and pillaged a large area. :v

[umiman]

I'm confused.

If you're going to be giving them de jure land, why not just create the title and give them the title? It will automatically give them all the stuff inside the title that you own (but not stuff that you don't personally hold.).

So if you created the Kingdom of Hungary and gave it to someone, he'd get all the lands considered de jure Hungary that you personally hold.

It is also ordered. Just weirdly. So long as you haven't loaded a game, it's ordered in what you conquered last.

[Grim Portent]

The Nomad system for controlling land is certainly easier than the other governments methods. Though I honestly find the vassal clans more of a nuisance than anything else, they have minimal impacts on wars, basically never manage to take over the Horde from me and just serve as a hassle because of needing to dump land on them.

I've found in the past Norse pagan Nomads are actually pretty hilarious. All the buffs of being Norse with all the buffs of being Nomad. Provided you can get some boats from somewhere, such as... say the tribes in Scandinavia, to ferry your horses around the islands of Western Europe you can reach everywhere pretty easily.

It does annoy me I've never managed to find a mod that lets you negate the need for handing out land to vassal clans though. It takes so much more time to do when each county needs handed out separately compared to dumping a ducal title on someone and letting them sort out counts and barons.

I am now wondering how good Aztec pagan Nomads would be. Aztecs are the only pagans who can Holy War while unreformed, which would be pretty handy for the Nomads for snapping up small chunks of land from the small nations in Eastern Europe.

I'm confused.

If you're going to be giving them de jure land, why not just create the title and give them the title? It will automatically give them all the stuff inside the title that you own (but not stuff that you don't personally hold.).

So if you created the Kingdom of Hungary and gave it to someone, he'd get all the lands considered de jure Hungary that you personally hold.

Last time I played Nomads handing out titles didn't give their de jure counties to Nomad vassals, just the capital county and the Ducal/King title. The other counties still had to be handed out manually. Took me a while to notice so I had tons on inter-vassal wars over de jure territory.

[Zanzetkuken The Great]

Isn't there an 'include lower titles' option when you give away land that grants the entire thing?

[hector13]

Isn't there an 'include lower titles' option when you give away land that grants the entire thing?

That's what I was saying that didn't work. Just gives them a single county in the kingdom and the title.

I have literally hundreds of baronies to sift through and a desire for some organization. Initially I started handing out counties with single holdings, then two holdings and so on, which were spread out all over. All the vassals have -20 penalties for various Duchies and Kingdom titles so even if I do give them all enough land to reduce the penalty for "needs more grazing land!" or whatever they all hate me 'cause they're spread out everywhere.

It only became a problem when I got Conclave though. Everybody would get all pissy about my conquesting without the Council's blessing and I may have not noticed that for a while and then wondered why literally every single person in my glorious land loathed me with a passion before realizing.

"Oh," I said "Looks like a reign of tyranny is going to begin." before demanding titles from all the non-nomad vassals, then imprisoning traitorous bastard nomad vassals and then the problem I have with handing out land.

TL;DR doesn't work, multiple -20 "I want x title" penalties, Conclave, not paying attention to Council's opinion on starting wars, reign of tyranny, mass demand on non-nomad vassal titles, imprison and murder nomad vassals, too much land to sift through for order, can't hand it out with organization 'cause doesn't work.