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Author Topic: Crusader Kings 2 is released.  (Read 2112502 times)

Micro102

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Re: Crusader Kings 2 is released.
« Reply #10695 on: August 07, 2016, 11:17:54 pm »

How soon before the combat did you hire the mercs?

When first hired, mercenaies have a morale level of 0.

Also, camel cavalry are weaker at skirmish and pursue than light cavalry or horse archers, but much MUCH better in melee (equivalent to heavy infantry on the attack).

Tactics could have been at play as well -- Byzantines are won to use the Embolon Charge Formation, which boosts heavy cavalry, but greatly weakens heavy infantry.

Mercs were up for a long time, not a morale problem.

The camel cavalry and tactics thing are interesting, but could you give me a simple yes or no? Do you think it possible for two armies with equal numbers (let's even say mostly light infantry and archers vs mostly heavy cavalry and heavy infantry) to develop a scenario in which one side that is winning suddenly loses the last 70% of their morale? Because my fights with rebels says otherwise.
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Rolan7

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Re: Crusader Kings 2 is released.
« Reply #10696 on: August 07, 2016, 11:24:08 pm »

For what it's worth, I've seen my share of mysterious last-minute reversals too.  Usually there's some clear cause, like a flank breaking or my retinue being entirely Light Infantry+Archers who suck at the melee phase.  But sometimes the battle just tips for no apparent reason.  There is a very large luck factor.  Which is frustrating, since whoever wins gets to slaughter the losers.  Frustrating even if you win, honestly, as you have to micromanage chasing them around.
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Xeron

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Re: Crusader Kings 2 is released.
« Reply #10697 on: August 08, 2016, 12:01:25 am »

I have honestly not seen this, I have seen it in EU3 but in CK2 I've had no such issue.
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RedKing

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Re: Crusader Kings 2 is released.
« Reply #10698 on: August 08, 2016, 12:34:41 am »

How soon before the combat did you hire the mercs?

When first hired, mercenaies have a morale level of 0.

Also, camel cavalry are weaker at skirmish and pursue than light cavalry or horse archers, but much MUCH better in melee (equivalent to heavy infantry on the attack).

Tactics could have been at play as well -- Byzantines are won to use the Embolon Charge Formation, which boosts heavy cavalry, but greatly weakens heavy infantry.

Mercs were up for a long time, not a morale problem.

The camel cavalry and tactics thing are interesting, but could you give me a simple yes or no? Do you think it possible for two armies with equal numbers (let's even say mostly light infantry and archers vs mostly heavy cavalry and heavy infantry) to develop a scenario in which one side that is winning suddenly loses the last 70% of their morale? Because my fights with rebels says otherwise.
Yes. Because rebels have shitty morale and are almost entirely light infantry and archers (which also have shitty morale).

In your example, the light infantry/archer side is going to be winning the skirmish phase, which comes first.
Then the melee phase kicks in, and holy shit are they going to get steamrolled.

Conversely, when Genghis Khan shows up with his 100,000 horse archers he steamrolls opposing armies with a vengeance because horse archers excel in the skirmish phase. So his army decimates your morale in the skirmish phase, forcing you to retreat, which lets his horse archers follow up in the pursuit phase and wreak some serious damage. If you can ever hold fast against an equal force of horse archers (perhaps with war elephants or tons of heavy cavalry), the melee phase could deal a heavy counterblow. Of course, Altaic leaders with horse archer armies are likely to use the "Retreat and Ambush" tactic, which turns the Phase back to Skirmish and gives horse archers a big bonus.

I would strongly suggest reading up on the CKII combat mechanics, if you haven't already.
« Last Edit: August 08, 2016, 01:19:02 am by RedKing »
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Micro102

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Re: Crusader Kings 2 is released.
« Reply #10699 on: August 08, 2016, 01:12:16 am »

How soon before the combat did you hire the mercs?

When first hired, mercenaies have a morale level of 0.

Also, camel cavalry are weaker at skirmish and pursue than light cavalry or horse archers, but much MUCH better in melee (equivalent to heavy infantry on the attack).

Tactics could have been at play as well -- Byzantines are won to use the Embolon Charge Formation, which boosts heavy cavalry, but greatly weakens heavy infantry.

Mercs were up for a long time, not a morale problem.

The camel cavalry and tactics thing are interesting, but could you give me a simple yes or no? Do you think it possible for two armies with equal numbers (let's even say mostly light infantry and archers vs mostly heavy cavalry and heavy infantry) to develop a scenario in which one side that is winning suddenly loses the last 70% of their morale? Because my fights with rebels says otherwise.
Yes. Because rebels have shitty morale and are almost entirely light infantry and archers (which also have shitty morale).

In your example, the light infantry/archer side is going to be winning the skirmish phase, which comes first.
Then the melee phase kicks in, and holy shit are they going to get steamrolled.

Like I said, in my experience rebels get steamrolled, but not one tick instant rout steamrolled. And we are talking about non-rebel armies with reasonable balance in composition.

I did think of something though. It is possible that we fought on a desert. Do deserts have special modifiers?
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Grim Portent

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Re: Crusader Kings 2 is released.
« Reply #10700 on: August 08, 2016, 12:52:37 pm »

Deserts don't have special modifiers beyond a very high attrition rate, but the Muslims often have the desert terrain expert commander trait that boosts their army by 20% in desert terrain. It makes fighting experienced generals tricky in that region since most of the terrain benefits them unlike specializing in mountains hills or plains which are far more scattered about.

Between various little commander modifiers and the choices of tactics used it is entirely possible for a force to more or less insta-break. I've done it to enemies myself on occasion even with similar numbers of troops because my forces were that much better at the melee phase because of multipliers stacking up just right.
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hector13

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Re: Crusader Kings 2 is released.
« Reply #10701 on: August 08, 2016, 01:40:37 pm »

There are various bonuses certain units get from certain tactics used, some of which can be utterly devastating. You more 'n likely were hit by one of those.
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Malus

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Re: Crusader Kings 2 is released.
« Reply #10702 on: August 09, 2016, 08:21:47 am »

New dev diary.

The modding changelog in particular looks great, and the performance improvements are much needed. I hope Stellaris will be getting this kind of love 4 years from now.
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Zangi

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Re: Crusader Kings 2 is released.
« Reply #10703 on: August 09, 2016, 08:37:03 am »

There are expectations of similar work to be put into Stellaris, yes.
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umiman

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Re: Crusader Kings 2 is released.
« Reply #10704 on: August 09, 2016, 12:33:37 pm »

New dev diary.

The modding changelog in particular looks great, and the performance improvements are much needed. I hope Stellaris will be getting this kind of love 4 years from now.
Oh man, it's so delicious.

Micro102

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Re: Crusader Kings 2 is released.
« Reply #10705 on: August 13, 2016, 08:14:44 pm »

AHHHH! I have a god-tier cousin who needs to be married to someone and I don't know what to do with her! It feels like not giving her a matrilineal marriage is a waste of her skills but no one want to marry her matrilineally because she isn't important enough! I'm tempted to just marry her to my current character (they are both geniuses) who also had god-tier skills and have the most powerful combo in the game, but I'm afraid the inbred trait will destroy my next characters.

I need suggestions! What can I do with an insanely powerful female cousin marriage wise?
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PTTG??

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Re: Crusader Kings 2 is released.
« Reply #10706 on: August 13, 2016, 08:18:37 pm »

SPAWN MORE OVERLORDS
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umiman

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Re: Crusader Kings 2 is released.
« Reply #10707 on: August 13, 2016, 08:18:48 pm »

AHHHH! I have a god-tier cousin who needs to be married to someone and I don't know what to do with her! It feels like not giving her a matrilineal marriage is a waste of her skills but no one want to marry her matrilineally because she isn't important enough! I'm tempted to just marry her to my current character (they are both geniuses) who also had god-tier skills and have the most powerful combo in the game, but I'm afraid the inbred trait will destroy my next characters.

I need suggestions! What can I do with an insanely powerful female cousin marriage wise?
Just marry her to some random courtier?

Marry her to a relative.

hector13

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Re: Crusader Kings 2 is released.
« Reply #10708 on: August 13, 2016, 10:06:17 pm »

AHHHH! I have a god-tier cousin who needs to be married to someone and I don't know what to do with her! It feels like not giving her a matrilineal marriage is a waste of her skills but no one want to marry her matrilineally because she isn't important enough! I'm tempted to just marry her to my current character (they are both geniuses) who also had god-tier skills and have the most powerful combo in the game, but I'm afraid the inbred trait will destroy my next characters.

I need suggestions! What can I do with an insanely powerful female cousin marriage wise?
Just marry her to some random courtier?

Marry her to a relative.

Try to make sure they're at least two branches apart. So no g'parents, cousins, nieces/nephews, aunts/uncles, that sorta thing.
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Sartain

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Re: Crusader Kings 2 is released.
« Reply #10709 on: August 13, 2016, 10:18:51 pm »

AHHHH! I have a god-tier cousin who needs to be married to someone and I don't know what to do with her! It feels like not giving her a matrilineal marriage is a waste of her skills but no one want to marry her matrilineally because she isn't important enough! I'm tempted to just marry her to my current character (they are both geniuses) who also had god-tier skills and have the most powerful combo in the game, but I'm afraid the inbred trait will destroy my next characters.

I need suggestions! What can I do with an insanely powerful female cousin marriage wise?

It's a medieval dynasty simulator, it's pretty much mandatory that your family might get a bit odd :)
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