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[eclipsetail]

Not sure, we was at some point, now hes just lurking around. Again, I suspect.

Tell me eclipsetail, why did you cancel your shortening of the day? Chickening out now that you've drawn my eye?? You still haven't answered my question from before, btw. And don't forget to answer my question either Zathras. I'm getting to you in a bit.

Because I forgot everyone hadn't voted yet. And I didn't know anything about no-edit-appear time.

[Diablous]

USEC isn't voting for himsself. his vote was for... zako, i think?

Oh yeah. Thanks.

Votecount:
eclipsetail - {1} - Zako
Scatterbrain - {0}
USEC_OFFICER - {0}
shibdib - {1} - Scatterbrain
Zako - {1} - USEC_OFFICER
TheBroodyMoods - {0}
Spartan 117 - {1} - breadbocks
breadbocks - {4} - TheBroodyMoods, Spartan 117, eclipsetail, Zathras
Zathras - {0}

Not voting
shibdib
 
If there are any errors, please inform me.

[USEC_OFFICER]

I'm not lurking. I usually get on the internet at this time.

Anyways, what I learned from last beginners game would be to post more, so people don't say that I'm lurking/hiding, to think about what I am posting so it doesn't blow up in my face and to go with my gut, because I will overthink things in day 3, which doesn't look very good for me and just helps the scum.

Personally, I think the last beginner's mafia was harder than this one will be. Several people have either dropped scumtells or honest-to-god mistakes. Day 3 (Assuming I get to it) will be so much easier.

Unvote. Scatterbrain, discounting the last beginners game, (Where you got nightkilled immediately after replacing someone) what did you learn from your last beginner's mafia? (If any.)

[Zathras]

And don't forget to answer my question either Zathras.

You didn't ask me a question.

(And there's a 5-minute or so grace period when edits won't show up >_>  People often use it to fix typos and such.)

And I didn't know anything about no-edit-appear time.

@Mod & ICs, can you clarify the no-editing rule? I thought it was "no edits ever, for any reason, period", even if the forum does allow a short window where it doesn't display it. I saw an old game where Org was given endless shit for editing even where it didn't show -- remember that some people have forum settings such that they receive an email with the contents of your post, pre-edit (even within the window). Also, the window is pretty short; if you are fixing two typos, replacing a comma with a semicolon, and rereading to make sure, you may miss the window by a couple of seconds, and BAM! instant rules violation and probable modkill.

I think the "no edits, ever" version of the rule is better and safer.


On other things, shibdib hasn't posted yet, two days in. Mod: has he been prodded?

For the record, I generally would support a "lynch all lurkers" policy, but for this game, breadbox has to go first. I still rather not wait until Wednesday for that.

Finally, USEC, can you elaborate on what scumtells you have noticed so far?

[Vector]

@Mod & ICs, can you clarify the no-editing rule? I thought it was "no edits ever, for any reason, period", even if the forum does allow a short window where it doesn't display it. I saw an old game where Org was given endless shit for editing even where it didn't show -- remember that some people have forum settings such that they receive an email with the contents of your post, pre-edit (even within the window). Also, the window is pretty short; if you are fixing two typos, replacing a comma with a semicolon, and rereading to make sure, you may miss the window by a couple of seconds, and BAM! instant rules violation and probable modkill.

That's basically the rule, but it usually depends on what you're editing.  If it's something really fast--you forgot a word, something like that--no one even notices or cares.  Usually, it's better to just post again--but I figured I'd mention it, just in case.

The problem with Org was that he seemed to radically change the content of his message, which is a problem.

[TheBroodyMoods]

On other things, shibdib hasn't posted yet, two days in. Mod: has he been prodded?

For the record, I generally would support a "lynch all lurkers" policy, but for this game, breadbox has to go first. I still rather not wait until Wednesday for that.

I don't much care for the sentiment, and upon further thought, I don't think there is any use in shortening the day if we haven't heard from someone yet.

I say we keep ourselves open to extending the day until Shibdib either graces us with his presence or is replaced, and the replacement has said his piece.

[webadict]

No edits. Ever. Not okay.

[Diablous]

@Mod & ICs, can you clarify the no-editing rule? I thought it was "no edits ever, for any reason, period", even if the forum does allow a short window where it doesn't display it. I saw an old game where Org was given endless shit for editing even where it didn't show -- remember that some people have forum settings such that they receive an email with the contents of your post, pre-edit (even within the window). Also, the window is pretty short; if you are fixing two typos, replacing a comma with a semicolon, and rereading to make sure, you may miss the window by a couple of seconds, and BAM! instant rules violation and probable modkill.

The rule is basically "no edits ever". Even if it's just fixing a typo during the window where the edit string doesn't show up, I'd rather you guys just post again.

On other things, shibdib hasn't posted yet, two days in. Mod: has he been prodded?

I'm about to.

[webadict]

If ye need a replacer, I've already figured out who the scums are.

[Zako]

And don't forget to answer my question either Zathras.

You didn't ask me a question.

Oh really? Then whats this?

Plus, I saw that you supported the shortening Zathras and Breadlocks. Explain yourselves!

Still haven't explained why you shortened the day. I'm waiting for your explaination. I also see that you haven't taken back your shortening of the day unvote so why is that Zathras?

And another thing:

For the record, I generally would support a "lynch all lurkers" policy, but for this game, breadbox has to go first. I still rather not wait until Wednesday for that.

Why would you not want to wait? The day is the town's strength, we can take all the time we need to find scum, there is no point to rush for a quick lynch unless we ALL know the lynchee is scum. Which we don't. Only scum want a quick lynch this early, and there is NOTHING preventing you from scumhunting right now. Of which you haven't done much. Plus why lynch the lurkers when you could just replace them? Takes away a lynch from us to kill a inactive player. I don't really see much logic in that.

Broody, bread is obvtown to me. Read my post reguarding him and think about it, there is no point to lynching him just so that we can get to playing. Thats what the scum want. I'm not defending him, what he did was stupid, but it wasn't scummy in my eyes. Just newbish. And for the record, I never said you shortened the day, I was talking to Zathras and bread when I said that.

[TheBroodyMoods]

Zathras last post gave me a funny feeling as well. It seemed like in addition to getting a quick lynch he was trying to lead the next vote toward someone who has yet to say anything, who was obviously not going to be mafia killed.

I would like to Unvote, for the time being.

Breadbocks: In your opinion who is the scummiest player?

Zathras: Why should we rush the vote? How is lynching someone who hasn't posted yet going to help the scum hunt?

Shibdib: Your opinion so far- take your time- the vote is going until Wednesday. What's taken you so long?

Everyone else, your opinions please. And yes, as scummy as it always Looks, could I get a vote count- because I am too lazy to tack all this stuff in my head all the time. :/

[Zathras]

And don't forget to answer my question either Zathras.

You didn't ask me a question.

Oh really? Then whats this?

Plus, I saw that you supported the shortening Zathras and Breadlocks. Explain yourselves!

That is not a question. Questions generally end with one of these --> "?"

As to the explanation, I gave it in my posts:
here:

The problem, breadbocks, is that the BBB gambit would only help scum, even if it worked. There is no reason for a townie to try it, only for a scum, so you really just have yourself to blame.

Here:

Again, I wanted an excuse to try it, not that I have one. I see being scum as being an excuse.

Ouch. OK, then unvote eclipsetail, vote breadbocks. Let's get this over with so we can go back to RVS/scumhunting without the BBB thing hanging over our heads.

And here:

Yeah... on the other hand, I'd rather the game proceed faster and that breadbox does get the noose. I agree we need to get back into deliberations, RVS and scumhunting, but the BBB thing would just prevent or distract from that. I'd rather not wait until wednesday for this to end. Also, if we just ignore breadbox, we get the worst possible result: the BBB works and someone tries it again.

I also see that you haven't taken back your shortening of the day unvote so why is that Zathras?

Because my point stands. The worst case is that we don't lynch breadbox, the BBB gambit works, and someone tries it again. If he eventually (after today) does flip scum, it's even worse. My vote for breadbocks and my request to shorten the day stand.

And another thing:
[...]why lynch the lurkers when you could just replace them? Takes away a lynch from us to kill a inactive player. I don't really see much logic in that.

The "lynch all lurkers" position is common, and valid. Lurking, whether town or scum, hurts town. Scum lurk as a strategy, and a player posting as little as possible is a scumtell. If we allow people to lurk unchallenged, it only strengthens the scum's position, being able to hide behind it to lurk as a strategy, going unnoticed, and avoiding dropping scumtells.

On a related note, from the meta point of view: these games can take forever if activity dies, and an active anti-lurk policy helps keep people around and talkative. I'd rather this game doesn't last a month or more, as I've seen others do. Since I fully expect breadbox to be very inactive now that his gambit didn't work (unless we let it work), shortening and lynching helps the game progress faster. This paragraph is not pro- or anti- town, it's meta on what I consider a mafia game interesting, lively, active and fun. Lurking hurts the players.

TL;DR: I believe breadbox is probably scum, and certainly anti-town and too dumb to live. Lurkers in general hurt town and should be pressured to stop.

Broody, bread is obvtown to me. Read my post reguarding him and think about it, there is no point to lynching him just so that we can get to playing. Thats what the scum want. I'm not defending him, what he did was stupid, but it wasn't scummy in my eyes. Just newbish. And for the record, I never said you shortened the day, I was talking to Zathras and bread when I said that.

Hmm. You are defending him (saying he's obvtown, even after this). Why would you do that? Wasn't "I see being scum as an excuse" scummy? I see in your post a scum attempting to salvage the situation of having a dumb scum-mate. FoS on you, Zako.


On other things, USEC, please do elaborate on the "several" scumtells you have spotted so far. Also, Spartan117, what's your take on the BBB gambit thing, and do you have any suspicions yet?

My current suspicions, in descending order of scummitude:
- Breadbox; for reasons above.
- Spartan; for lurking to stay out of the light as a scum strategy.
- Zako; for defending breadbox and saying he's "not scummy".
- Scatterbrain, USEC; some lurking, need to tell us more about their observations.
- Broody, eclipse; seem townie enough so far.
- shibdib; no data. Show up, get replaced, or die.

[Spartan 117]

I'm not lurking, and I've been picking up tells.

What exactly are you trying to pull here Zathras? I know you're up to something!

[Zako]

Dude, hes an idiot, not scum. I've seen it happen before with webadict, and it's happening here. He thinks it was a good idea and it backfired. I'm not defending him, I'm saying hes stupid and we shouldn't waste a lynch on him.

Saying my question is not a question because it doesn't end with a ? is just stupid. The context says its a question.

When you say that you provided an explaination, I don't really see it. You just quoted your posts, and left us to decide if your right or not. All I see is a scum trying to convince me that he's explained his scumtell, when he hasn't.

And you're spreading WIFOM here:

Because my point stands. The worst case is that we don't lynch breadbox, the BBB gambit works, and someone tries it again. If he eventually (after today) does flip scum, it's even worse. My vote for breadbocks and my request to shorten the day stand.

And I said that he's obvtown TO ME. Not to everyone, TO ME. You can all think of him what you will, but I don't want to lynch a newb cause he made a stupid mistake.

I do however somewhat agree with you on the lurkers, I just don't want to waste lynches on them, thats all.

Finally, I am not defending him. I do not think that hes scum, but I do think he did something stupid that confuses the town which is bad. This 'lynch the useless players' attitude has happened before, with another beginners mafia where bandages did obvscum tells on purpose. He was town and we lost time and lynches getting rid of him when he did nothing to help town. It's happening here too and I'm not falling for it again.

And explain to me, how do you see the words 'I see being scum as an excuse' scummy? I want your opinion, how does this trip alarm bells for you?

[Zathras]

Dude, hes an idiot, not scum. I've seen it happen before with webadict, and it's happening here. He thinks it was a good idea and it backfired. I'm not defending him, I'm saying hes stupid and we shouldn't waste a lynch on him.

I see what you are saying. I'm saying he's both. But OK -- we'll see when end of day comes whether more people are on the "just an idiot" side, or on the "scum/too dumb to live/too anti-town to risk/can't encourage this behaviour" side.

When you say that you provided an explaination, I don't really see it.

I provided a clear step-by-step rationale of each of my actions. If you see something unexplained, please point it out more specifically.

[...]Finally, I am not defending him. I do not think that hes scum, but I do think he did something stupid that confuses the town which is bad.
[...]And I said that he's obvtown TO ME. Not to everyone, TO ME. You can all think of him what you will, but I don't want to lynch a newb cause he made a stupid mistake.

Yes, to YOU he's not scum, even after a) voting for himself; b) saying that he saw being scum as an excuse; and c) refusing to help town at all thereafter. To ME that is scum, and to ME, your defending him is very scummy. The gallant knight act does not become you. You are trying to keep him around, probably because he has a power role. You wouldn't want to lose your godfather/roleblocking scumbuddy, would you?

I'm sorry for you, Zako, stuck in a position where losing your scummate to his own stupidity would leave your scumteam emasculated. It must suck. No wonder you want to save him.

I do however somewhat agree with you on the lurkers, I just don't want to waste lynches on them, thats all.

I'm glad we agree. Unfortunately, the only way to pressure them is to threaten them with a lynch for lurking, and the only way that threat carries any weight is by seeing it through if necessary. I agree with you that it shouldn't be done all the time right away, but pressure has to be maintained. For the record, my shorten request relates to the BBB thing, not lurkers; the lurkers can die in the fullness of time, but the actively stupid/anti-town/obvscum/don't-really-wanna-play ones should die faster or we risk them taking the game down with them.

And explain to me, how do you see the words 'I see being scum as an excuse' scummy? I want your opinion, how does this trip alarm bells for you?

Dude, how doesn't it? He read the article on the wiki, thought it would be fun, was looking for an excuse to try it, he rolled scum, he saw being scum as an excuse, and so he tried it. Them's the bells.

I'm not lurking, and I've been picking up tells.

As to lurking, well, your last post was over 24hrs ago here, and quite devoid of content; you've been very active elsewhere on the forums, and come here mere minutes after your name is mentioned. It seems more in line with scum-lurking strategy than people who just vanish from the forums for a while because they're busy. This doesn't necessarily make you scum, but looks scummy.

So, Spartan, how 'bout them scumtells? Have you picked up anything interesting you would like to share with the rest of the class?
_{Zako, ^this^ is a question. Just, you know, so you remember.}