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[Muz]

Yes, but people don't train their stealth skills by sneaking past the same guy over and over again.  There's a limit to what kind of grinding makes sense in a MUD

Yes but REAL stealth training is even more boring then that.

(well ok... Yes AND No... that is how some people train their stealth skill)

and I doubt... I HIGHLY doubt the mud included that training.

Actually, they probably do. If you send logs of your character training realistically, and consistently enough that the mods spot it, they give you some skill points for it. Also, the 'teach' command is coded in so that you can teach other people how to sneak around like you.

The really good RPIs actually reward activity that makes the game a little less boring for everyone else. With this comes (complaints of) favoritism.

I tried Armageddon...

Ignoring the silly premise, the game itself was terribly boring.  There was nothing at all to do except wander aimlessly reading the same flavor text over and over for random nameless NPCs that you can't interact with.  I think once another player ran past me.

Nah, it's nothing like that most of the time. You probably started off at some abandoned location, or started at the time of day when people are asleep. I can honestly say that it's one of the best games I've ever played. It's exactly the kind of experience I want out of my RPGs, but I'd rather it be compressed into a good time span, rather than spending 4 hours straight logged in. And yeah, sometimes nothing happens at all, but it's always very exciting when things do happen.

[Neonivek]

Actually, they probably do. If you send logs of your character training realistically, and consistently enough that the mods spot it, they give you some skill points for it. Also, the 'teach' command is coded in so that you can teach other people how to sneak around like you.

So... Cheating

Oooooooook...

[Muz]

It's only as much cheating as when you roleplay it out with a DM. That's what the moderators are for, to keep it logical. Also why these games get so many accusations of favoritism and loads of nerdrage in their reviews.

With single-player RPGs and MMOs, they're only moderated by the game mechanics themselves, which keep it clean and simple, but also don't let you do anything that's outside the "rules".

[Neonivek]

It's only as much cheating as when you roleplay it out with a DM. That's what the moderators are for, to keep it logical. Also why these games get so many accusations of favoritism and loads of nerdrage in their reviews.

With single-player RPGs and MMOs, they're only moderated by the game mechanics themselves, which keep it clean and simple, but also don't let you do anything that's outside the "rules".

Neither do MUDs...

I bet if I joined a mud, became a great magician, and said that I was creating something they wouldn't let me.

[ductape]

oh you would be surprised. First off, to become that great mage you would need to be awesome at RP and improve the gaming experience for everyone, including the mods. If your idea was something really cool that would be fun for everyone and not just you, I bet they would implement it.

I have seen it happen before. The qualifying question is, does it improve the game?

[Neonivek]

oh you would be surprised. First off, to become that great mage you would need to be awesome at RP and improve the gaming experience for everyone, including the mods. If your idea was something really cool that would be fun for everyone and not just you, I bet they would implement it.

I have seen it happen before. The qualifying question is, does it improve the game?

The cripplingly bad UI may prevent that. Though I am refering to "Me" not anyone else.

Yes I am aware that I basically stated that all MUDs are against me... but it is still valid until proven otherwise.

[Muz]

I bet if I joined a mud, became a great magician, and said that I was creating something they wouldn't let me.

It has been done, and very nicely at that. But you really do need to become a great magician for the request to be approved, and that's where the 'ridiculous time sink' part comes in. You'd need well over 2000 hours of game playing just to get to that trust level, and certainly over 1000 hours on that individual character to be powerful enough, assuming you don't lose any trust from the mods. And you'll probably get just a bit peeved off or disappointed when the town decides to burn your mage for being a witch.

[Ioric Kittencuddler]

I bet if I joined a mud, became a great magician, and said that I was creating something they wouldn't let me.

It has been done, and very nicely at that. But you really do need to become a great magician for the request to be approved, and that's where the 'ridiculous time sink' part comes in. You'd need well over 2000 hours of game playing just to get to that trust level, and certainly over 1000 hours on that individual character to be powerful enough, assuming you don't lose any trust from the mods. And you'll probably get just a bit peeved off or disappointed when the town decides to burn your mage for being a witch.

Witch burnings make even less sense in a fantasy game where magic is commonplace.

"Burn the witch!!"
"Er, ok, so it's a witch, what's wrong with this particular witch?"
"BUUUUUUUURRRRRRN!"

[Leonon]

Maybe it's a group that abhors magic, kind of like the Amish with technology?

Then again, you don't normally see Amish people burning engineers...


He's designing a devise to save labor! BURN THE WITCH ENGINEER!

[Fikes]

This thread, even though I didn't read it, highlights what I hate about this forum.

Why is KotOR a worse game than Dragon Warrior? I will talk about Dragon Warrior 3 since I have played it the most.

Let's like up the RP statistics. Who wins in each category:

"Moral" Choices: Kotor
Character customization: Kotor
Least Linear: Kotor
Party options: Tied
NPC Interactions: Kotor
Story line: Kotor (FFS, who did you turn out to be!?)
Exploration: Dragonwarrior
Here is a list of non-RPG specific stuff:
Combat: Kotor
Usability: Kotor
Humor: Kotor

I mean really think about it. Some old games are classics, like Contra, and we love them for it. But overall, contra was a pretty lame game. It was nothing special other than it was first.
Lots of RPGs fall into this category. Dragon Warrior 3 is a great example. It was a classic, I spent hours on it, I cried when my save was lost! But every party member had their own inventory? If you ordered one of your guys to attack a monster that was already dead, they lost their turn? You had to go through every equipment slot to select a new piece to equip?
Not only that, but you claim people are in this huge grind with little rewards now, what the hell do you think 1992 was? At least now while we are grinding we get flashy visuals. If you think DW was less of a grind then KOTOR you are crazy! You would randomly get attacked walking around outside. It was a grind to get anywhere!
The one place I will agree with you is that games today are easier and offer much more hand holding. But do you really want this? I am sure King’s Quest were great games, but without a guide book I would have never known where to walk in the desert. WTF is that? Guess and fail over and over? Walk off in a random direction and hope for victory? I don’t want to play a game like that. After dying 5 times I shut the game off.
This forum really needs to stop looking at games like Dragon Warrior and saying “They were perfect and pretty graphics are stupid!” There are a lot of good games out there. Don’t let the fact that we will probably never have an X-com again taint your perception.

[3]

This forum

If you're not going to bother to read the OP, at least try to read some of the replies.

[Fikes]

This forum

If you're not going to bother to read the OP, at least try to read some of the replies.

It was clearly an over generalization, but how many threads do we have on this forum dedicated to bashing the commerical game industry? Quite a few...

I understand that there are several people who feel the same way I do, but I think there are more here who agree with the OP, who see 1998-2000 to be the golden age of gaming because they played more Super Mario Bros 1 than NEW super mario bros (Latest Wii game).

EDIT: Wow, I messed up the formating on that one...

[3]

The overall opinion appears to me to be better than 50/50 in your favour, at a glance.

Regardless, your point is... partially valid. The state of bias here might not be good, but it's far worse elsewhere (this goes both ways, of course).

[Neonivek]

So being a great mage with a great project that was possible is now impossible once again.

Thank you for proving your point? I forgot what that was exactly.

As for moral choices in RPGs... an article I read is pretty much correct. It is usually a choice between being a psychopathic cleptomaniac or a Saint.

[Eugenitor]

And without a moral system, the usual choice is "saintly kleptomaniac". You save people's children with the items you get from looting their houses.