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[Sowelu]

Wizardry was the gold standard for pure, distilled dungeon crawling and combat of that era.  Also, for sheer difficulty.  Making maps was HARD but satisfying.  But, I'm also using it to establish that there have always been many definitions for the term "RPG".

[Pnx]

Have you guys ever heard what toady wrote about why he started DF? Basically he felt that the lack of complexity and depth in games was just developers getting lazy, and decided to really make something complex and in depth, thus slaves to armok was born, then he reconsidered and realized he'd wound up focusing on graphics and UI when he wanted the meat and bones of the game done. So he restarted with DF.

The concept that developers have gotten lazy and prefer to make things shiny, rather make something complex is what DF is built on.

[nenjin]

Toady started making Armok, AFAIK, because he wanted to make his own game. He wanted to make a game with mechanics he cared about and found interesting. I don't recall him starting because he felt the state of the industry was so deplorable he had to do something.

And when you stop and consider how long it would take dev houses to create the kinds of games that supposedly define the "golden age of RPGs..." I think you'll see that we're basically playing the same games with an interface and graphics overhaul. Seriously. There is nothing revolutionary anymore about Final Fantasy, Dragon Warrior or any of those old skool games. We're still playing on the same systems, STR CON INT DEF MagD blah blah blah. We're just not as easily amused by the same loot and pony show we used to be.

If anything, what's changed is the amount of chaos developers let exist in their game. Grakelin's SS of EQ reminded me of that.

[Virtz]

Toady started making Armok, AFAIK, because he wanted to make his own game. He wanted to make a game with mechanics he cared about and found interesting. I don't recall him starting because he felt the state of the industry was so deplorable he had to do something.

I don't recall talk about the industry in general. But he did say in one interview/talk that he was semi-inspired by Daggerfall and was dissapointed that following Elder Scrolls titles gave up on the random generation and potential world simulation (although any real world simulation wasn't done in the release version of Daggerfall, but was planned).

[Sowelu]

Oh!  Let me add Darklands as an early-era RPG that was totally awesome in concept, nice and dark, good roleplaying opportunities, realistic combat, plenty of choices to make (though tempered against the need for victory).  It was about as ambitious as Daggerfall, and almost exactly as flawed, buggy and incomplete.  Which is to say: playable, enjoyable, but could have been so much more.

[Neyvn]

I recognize each one except this one.... Never heard or seen this before...

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

[HonkyPunch]

rpgs are repetitve grind fests.
FPS games are where it's at.

[Neonivek]

When Oblivion came out and I expressed my dissatisfaction with it, other people told me that it was a better game than Morrowind ever was.
It saddens me

It has a few virtues over Morrowind. Though yes Oblivion is rather overrated and I wasn't too happy with it.

"golden age of RPGs..."

Yeah there was no actual "Golden age of videogames" people who tell you otherwise have very selective memories.

As for Wizardry... It didn't start out as a very deep game, in fact far from it. It got by through sheer information overload disguised as complexity. I prefer its later versions to its early examples.

[Nainemid]

I recognize each one except this one.... Never heard or seen this before...

That would be Elemental: War of Magic, which is an unreleased Turn Based Strategy game by Stardock.

[Ioric Kittencuddler]

I recognize each one except this one.... Never heard or seen this before...

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

It looks like it might be a screenshot from Elemental: War of Magic.  An upcoming turn based empire building strategy game from Stardock.  Admittedly it does have a leader unit that I think can be upgraded so it isn't completely devoid of RPG elements but you'd have to be really stretching to consider it an RPG.  I don't remember it ever being promoted as one.

I have to totally agree that innovation is pretty dead in the mainstream games industry, but it's the fault of gamers just as much as game makers.  Game makers make generic shiny baubles and people lap it up.  Borderlands had a cool concept but in the end the coolest thing about it was it's weird graphic style.  Modern Warfare 2 is the most popular game around right now, and it's also one of the least inspired.  It's plot has slightly less holes than it does dead foreigners, and even though you are always in first person in the game except for the weird satellite zoom to head at the start of a few levels they still manage to to control of the camera so often that you start wondering when your next blackout or bout of paralysis will occur. 

The multiplayer relies on the increasingly common place exp unlock system where you grind your way to better equipment... just like an RPG!

They didn't skimp on the eye candy.  It runs in glorious 1080p and keeps things in constant motion so that the cinematic experience isn't hampered by jagged edges.

It's certainly not a bad game...  It's exactly what it's designed to be.  A blockbuster.  A box office smash hit.  A cash cow.

EDIT: Damn you ninja!  DAMN YOU!

[Neonivek]

Borderlands had a cool concept but in the end the coolest thing about it was it's weird graphic style

It was interesting to see what they planned for Boarderlands and what they ended up actually doing with it.

They started with Roadwarriors and ended with... uhhh... something.

[kulik]

I too dreamed of something like procedurally generated quests, where your NPCs have their memories, feelings, ambitions which drives their actions and creating stories of love, hate, intrigues, revenge... in which you can participate.
I would like to now if something like that is even possible, for starting maybe like test with 10 NPCs which interactions are based on thing i described.

[Neonivek]

I too dreamed of something like procedurally generated quests, where your NPCs have their memories, feelings, ambitions which drives their actions and creating stories of love, hate, intrigues, revenge... in which you can participate.
I would like to now if something like that is even possible, for starting maybe like test with 10 NPCs which interactions are based on thing i described.

We have a game that promises that every what? Two years?

[kulik]

I too dreamed of something like procedurally generated quests, where your NPCs have their memories, feelings, ambitions which drives their actions and creating stories of love, hate, intrigues, revenge... in which you can participate.
I would like to now if something like that is even possible, for starting maybe like test with 10 NPCs which interactions are based on thing i described.

We have a game that promises that every what? Two years?

Which game promised it? Closest to it is DF with its legends, nothing comes to that even close.

[Neonivek]

Which game promised it? Closest to it is DF with its legends, nothing comes to that even close

I never said they delivered. Only that they promised.