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[Heron TSG]

I'm not even abusing the feat as much as I could. I could take the 'Frenzied Devotion' feat to make all of them unquestioningly loyal, and I wouldn't take a penalty to leadership if they died. I could then freely take all their money, experience, and goods, and then kill them. Another feat, Eye For Talent, makes followers and cohorts arrive in 1d4 weeks instead of 1d4 months. With these, I could approach actual godhood in a matter of months.

[Iituem]

I retract my statement.  That is why I'm rewriting the Leadership feat.

[Heron TSG]

Whoever your players are, tell them that I agree with you completely.

[Iituem]

So thinking about your Lancer comment, let's take a look at the Five Man Band and Five Bad Band mechanic for a moment...

The Five Man Band

The Hero - Leadership role.  Arguably Skye based on being the group's face, with none of the virtue.  Possibly Glacius when he's rearing his noble head.

The Lancer - You know, I have no idea who would fit better here.  Based on the mix of combat prowess and the contrast presented with the Hero (darker, quieter and even more amoral) I'm going to say Arman.

The Smart Guy - Toss up between Rorakar and Glacius for either this or 'The Chick'.  Rorakar isn't as physically weak as Glacius (purely on account of the whole ranger thing) but he doesn't really seem as concerned with pushing a moral agenda.

The Big Guy - Sorry, Ulf.  Strongest of us all, and Ulf's stated goals are 'keep fighting on mercenary contracts, enjoy life'.  Which frankly are probably the most desirable or non-destructive of all of our goals (fiefdom, godhood, escape a flight of dragons, be guided by some unseen and possibly manipulative river spirit to unknown ends).

The Chick - Despite my thinking Arman was a woman for most of the campaign, still somewhere between Rorakar and Glacius.  Arman's too amoral for this, Skye is definitely not moral enough for this, and Rorakar and Glacius are the non-human members.



The Five Bad Band

The Big Bad - Don't actually have an evil army yet, but given he's the only one who's actually out and out evil... Skye.

The Dragon - Going to say Arman here because of the expectation of eventual betrayal when it leads to Arman becoming a god and/or lich.

The Evil Genius - Might be Glacius, when he's a stronger sorcerer.  Hard to be sure, still on par with Rorakar.

The Brute - Still Ulf.  Still the strongest.

The Dark Chick - Still not Arman, still probably between Glacius and Rorakar.  Either of them could be the one that gets redeemed and doesn't die horrifically.

[ECrownofFire]

Fuck, I made a long post analyzing the group, and now it's gone, time to do this (relatively) nice and fast.

Skye is The Hero, and The Smart Guy, simply for being so tactical, tricky, and talking so much.

Ulf is The Big Guy, obviously.

Arman's another Big Guy. Not really the Lancer because he doesn't have any contrast with Skye. The only difference is the mobility versus strength thing. He's also not the number two, he's mainly just another guy on the side, just along for the ride.

Rorakar is an odd one. I'm going to go with The Chick, simply because he's so different from the rest of us, without being totally contrasting Skye (which would make him The Lancer). He's the representation of how ragtag this group really is. Not The Smart Guy because really, where's the smart?

Glacius is The Lancer. Not The Chick because he's not The Heart. He has moral issues, but he doesn't speak up for them, which really defines the Heart. He's not The Smart Guy either, because there's no subtly to him, and he's of fairly average intelligence.

There you go, super fast analyzation. Let's go super analyze us as a Five Bad Band, which more accurately describes us at this point anyway.

Skye is the Evil Genius and Big Bad. Face of the group and makes all the plans, no explanation required.

Ulf is The Brute. No explanation.

Arman is another Brute. Not The Dragon because he's not really the top enforcer, he's just there on the side. If he becomes immortal, he's more likely to just break off than outright betray us.

Rorakar is the Dark Chick. He's probably the best one for this role, simply for being so wildly different than the rest of us.

Glacius is The Dragon. Both for obvious reasons (come on, he's a half-dragon), because he's simply going to end up the most powerful, and because he's a Dragon With An Agenda (of not being evil ). He's the Token Good Teammate too, which I guess pegs him as The Starscream. Not The Dark Chick because he doesn't actually speak out against the evil stuff that much (he's against outright evil things, but most of this is just going straight past him). Being the Token Good Teammate gives him exclusive access to Anti Hero status though. Unless Skye is a hero enough for that, but he seems to just be doing evil because it benefits him.

Interesting how our two analyses of the group turned out so differently. At least we agree what Skye and Ulf are. They're really the "core" of our party, smart guy and dumb muscle. Politician and bodyguard. The perfect combo. Add in Glacius to the mix, and suddenly he takes over the Number Two position

[Heron TSG]

Rorakar isn't as physically weak as Glacius (purely on account of the whole ranger thing) but he doesn't really seem as concerned with pushing a moral agenda.

Well, if Rorakar and Glacius got into a fistfight, Glacius would usually win. Small size and low strength does that. But then, Glacius certainly has more intelligence, too.

I'll post my summary later, if I can think of one.

[Iituem]

Oddly enough I'm now finding myself agreeing with Crown's analysis more.  Nicely done!  And yeah, unless Ulf gets too gods-damned sick of the evil we commit on a regular basis (though I expect he'll get sick of not getting paid much sooner) Glacius is probably more likely to go Anti-Hero.

I picked Neutral Evil as Skye's alignment after fairly careful thought.  Fails to adhere to anyone else's code enough to qualify for LE (concealing a certain rather significant find from our employers), too willing to engage in morally unscrupulous behaviour or behaviour that leads to evil for TN (taking a job to rescue the spymaster of the only recognised nation in Khorvaire to still practise slavery), but still has enough of a personal code to avoid being CE (deliberately made sure we left the two acolytes alive in that shack because he gave his word).

I've aimed to try and make Skye's humanity lie in a very strong sense of loyalty, perhaps edging into blindness where his native paranoia doesn't spot mistakes.  He hasn't even seriously considered that the one who betrayed us back in Xen'dril is a party member - though this is also because the most likely suspects are someone on the airship, the bank clerk, the boss of the Company or the House Sivis Guildmaster himself (most likely of those).

[Heron TSG]

I'd say that Rorakar is on the edge of Chaotic Good and Chaotic Neutral, heavily leaning towards neutral. He doesn't want to hurt anyone he doesn't have to, but isn't afraid of doing so if necessary.

[Heron TSG]

Well, mine certainly turned out different.

The Hero	Glacius
The Lancer	Arman Woyan
The Smart Guy	Rorakar
The Big Guy	Ulf, Son of Bear
The Chick	Merrian Skye

Glacius as the hero seems like an odd choice, but not only is the the most 'morally correct', the Hero doesn't have to be the leader, nor does he have to be the face of the party. Glacius instead is the man/dragon that we are rooting for. His ancestry has caused him much trouble throughout his life, and now he's on the run from a gang of dragons who want to kill him for being born. Along the way, he encounters a team of ragtag mercenaries who help protect him from the dragons. As their journeys continue, Glacius may one day convince his newfound friends to stray from their swords-for-hire ways and lead them on the path to redemption.

Arman would make an excellent Lancer. While Glacius was worshiped as a god by the barbarians of his home, Arman desperately wants to be a god(dess). Both are melee-capable spellcasters, but one is arcane and the other is divine. Glacius has morals, Arman ignores morals. He's not always a team player, being the silent one. He is also (by far) the one most likely to turn wholly evil, something that Glacius would rather prevent. Glacius and Arman are even (roughly) in size, though their shapes are different.

Rorakar fits the role of 'Smart Guy' better than anyone else, though he isn't a perfect fit. While he's smarter than average, he certainly isn't a genius. However, he is Crazy Prepared, as many Smart Guys are. He has weapons that can hurt anything in any situation, barring something with Vile damage reduction. Why does he have a silver dagger? For slicing himself out of the a giant werewolf. Rorakar is short and not very physically imposing. He also doesn't like talking to outsiders much, as his charisma is 6 and he's lived in a jungle for over a century. However, as some Smart Guys do, he has a method of combat that is fairly effective but very different from those of his peers. In addition, the Smart Guy is usually the sneaky one, assuming that the lancer isn't.

Ulf is the Big Guy. Class IV, specifically. I really really wanted to find another role for Ulf, and I actually had a paragraph typed up about how he could be the lancer fairly realistically, but then Arman would have to be the Big Guy, and it didn't make much sense. Ulf is, well, big. But so is everyone else who isn't a frogman. Nonetheless, Ulf is currently the powerhouse of the party. He's a simpler man than the others, and he's loyal to boot. Instead of strategy, Ulf usually barges right in and takes the most direct action possible.

Merrian is definitely the chick. Though he is not feminine, he is the heart of this mercenary company. He brought us together as a group, and he is currently keeping us together. He is not the most powerful member of the group, but he frequently gives advice to those that help him out. Much like The Chick, Skye emphasized loyalty and teamwork to achieve goals. Ironically, he is not the token good member, but rather the token evil member who, by virtue of being the heart of the group, causes the group to tend towards mildly evil actions. He manages the social aspect of the group, arranging missions and dealing with higher-ups. He helps decide on a course of action when others are confused, and I expect that if Arman (The Lancer) gets too evil, Skye will try to rein him in.

That's the way I see it, anyway. I wonder if we could make Five Man Band scenarios wherein each of the five characters is the Hero.

[ECrownofFire]

This is why I think we fit better as a Five Bad Band, because otherwise the group dynamics go out the window. If you think about it, our group leader is the evil guy, and the rest of us (except Glacius, Token Good Teammate, hehe) are just going along with it for the loot.

I still don't think Arman is The Lancer. He's not the "number two", nowhere even close. Glacius isn't really a team player, just look at how many times he's hit Ulf with his breath weapon Seriously, Glacius is the number one most likely to turn on the rest of you, simply for being good enough to care about all the evil stuff. Arman is the most likely to turn wholly evil, but then he'd just break off from the rest of the group. Arman is the quiet guy standing in the corner, always ready to kick someone's ass, along with Ulf.

I'll give you that Rorakar is The Smart Guy, but he has some crossing-over with The Chick, simply for representing how ragtag we really are.

Skye is really The Hero, he's the face of the group, he's still the central protagonist in my eyes, simply for leading us. I'll admit he does have some elements of The Chick, because he holds us together. He has some crossing over with The Smart Guy though, because he's all tactics and trickery, but yeah, Rorakar just fits it too well for them to share it.

Overall, a Five Bad Band just fits us better. Our little group is just too damn evil. Instead of Skye being Token Evil, Glacius is Token Good. Just look at where we are now.

[Cthulhu]

Yes, I don't want to give anything away, but Ulf and I (herp derp derp) have been considering how to deal with/possible contingency plans for when one of the party members inevitably goes full retard and takes their evil to a level Ulf can no longer just ignore.  It's cool though, I've never been in a game long enough for party dynamics like this to spring up.

[ECrownofFire]

Eventually, this group is going to fall apart in a massive fiery explosion. And it will be glorious.

I wonder what Cript will think of running 5 solo campaigns at once

[Heron TSG]

If the party ever splits up, I fully expect that it will be Arman and Merrian forming the 'evil' party while Ulf and Rorakar, being fed up with their evil hijinks, leave with Glacius.

[ECrownofFire]

You never know, Glacius might decide to join Arman in immortality and become a Dracolich, hehe.

But yeah, maybe. Depends on just how evil Arman gets, and how much evil the rest of us can stand.

[Heron TSG]

Aren't dragons already pretty much immortal? It's funny, actually, how long lived our party might be. Arman plans to live forever, Glacius is a dragon, and Rorakar is a Grippli, meaning he might have 300 more years left. I suspect that Ulf and Merrian will go the Gilgamesh route and try to survive forever in song and tale.