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[jfsh]

I've been trying to generate power underground, and I've run into some frustrating problems with my dwarven reactor.  Basically, I have water cascading down channels with water wheels above them, but the wheels seem to rarely activate. 


Here is an illustration of two levels of the reactor.  The green arrow represents the path that water travels.  There are more levels to it, but this is the basic idea.  Imagine a waterwheel above the water on level "Z", and water continuing below the waterwheel visible on "Z-1."



At the moment those screenshots were taken, I have three levels of waterwheels turned on, with each one holding 15-20 waterwheels.  I currently have 500 power, which means only 5 of those 50+ wheels are generating power (each creates 100 power).  The power generation fluctuates crazily, between 2000+ and 0.  All I want is a sustained 1500 power or so, but the wheels simply refuse to turn.

I've tried everything I can think of to make them work - varied levels of water, wheels over single/double/triple wide channels, gravity force feed, pump force feed.  If I turn off "show water levels" to see the flow state, almost the entire thing represents as ~~ (having flow).  Is there anything I'm missing?  It's making my current project very frustrating and slow!

[gtmattz]

You need to break it down into smaller setups and link them together.

Check out the section of the wiki on perpetual motion for more info: http://df.magmawiki.com/index.php/DF2010:Water_wheel#Perpetual_motion

The situation you have is nothing at all like a 'reactor', you need a lot more control over water levels to get a working solution.  Making a large room with a series of the reactor shown on the wiki is the best way to go in my experience.  Setting it up this way is not as FPS intensive as the system you are attempting to use, and is more reliable to boot.

[KrazyDocK]

Yes, the dwarven perpetual motion machine described in the wiki works well.

One thing I noticed in your screenshot was that all your waterwheels are perpendicular to the main direction of water flow.  My hunch is that your setup would probably work just fine if the waterwheels were actually parallel to the water flow.  That's certainly true in real life too.  It probably also explains why your power levels fluctuated--my guess is that every now and then there would be some flow sort of side to side even though it was for the most part southward.

[jfsh]

Well, my goal was to avoid the somewhat ridiculous self-powering systems on the wiki.  I hadn't thought about the direction of the waterwheels, but that actually makes a fair amount of sense.  Thanks for the replies,  I will think about this some more.

[blue emu]

Water wheels require a certain minimum depth of water to function... the water depth in parts of your screen-shot is well below that minimum.

[gtmattz]

Well, my goal was to avoid the somewhat ridiculous self-powering systems on the wiki.

Then why are you using the term reactor, as that is what that term refers to........

[jfsh]

Used the system on the wiki and it worked great, thanks.

Well, my goal was to avoid the somewhat ridiculous self-powering systems on the wiki.

Then why are you using the term reactor, as that is what that term refers to........

I apologize for misusing DF jargon...?

[blainemono]

Yes, the dwarven perpetual motion machine described in the wiki works well.

Actually, not quite. At least not for me it ain't. My reactor, though built exactly as per wiki specifications, produced power in short bursts, followed by short bursts of not producing power at all. Absolutely useless, since all machinery pretty much require a constant supply of power.

[Sphalerite]

Well, my goal was to avoid the somewhat ridiculous self-powering systems on the wiki.  I hadn't thought about the direction of the waterwheels, but that actually makes a fair amount of sense.  Thanks for the replies,  I will think about this some more.

Actually, the direction of the water wheel is irrelevant.  I have many water wheels in my current fortress powered by water flowing sideways to the wheel.  What matters is that the water is deeper than a certain depth (I suspect deeper than 4/7, but I haven't tested this) and flagged as flowing.  The problem is that what triggers water to be flagged as flowing is currently somewhat of a mystery.

[Lytha]

Actually, not quite. At least not for me it ain't. My reactor, though built exactly as per wiki specifications, produced power in short bursts, followed by short bursts of not producing power at all. Absolutely useless, since all machinery pretty much require a constant supply of power.

Yes, water can evaporate from a dwarven power reactor sometimes. It helps to build these things into an aquifer or over a pond filled directly from a replenishing water source.

[gtmattz]

Actually, not quite. At least not for me it ain't. My reactor, though built exactly as per wiki specifications, produced power in short bursts, followed by short bursts of not producing power at all. Absolutely useless, since all machinery pretty much require a constant supply of power.

Yes, water can evaporate from a dwarven power reactor sometimes. It helps to build these things into an aquifer or over a pond filled directly from a replenishing water source.

Or if you are using a bucket brigade to fill it, make sure to just leave the pond zone active, your dwarves should top it off whenever it needs more water.

[jfsh]

Yes, the dwarven perpetual motion machine described in the wiki works well.

Actually, not quite. At least not for me it ain't. My reactor, though built exactly as per wiki specifications, produced power in short bursts, followed by short bursts of not producing power at all. Absolutely useless, since all machinery pretty much require a constant supply of power.

Mine has actually been working shockingly well.  With 20 banks of 2 waterwheels each, it produces a rock-steady 4000 power - the actual maximum.  Here's what it looks like:



Power transfers through the gear assemblies above the pump/waterwheel setup.  Each is controlled by a lever, so I can isolate, say, 3 units only.  This is handy for kickstarting it back into operation if it goes offline (like if it overloads), or just for keeping it as lightweight as possible.  I can kill it instantly with lever-linked hatches over the pump intake, and it can be easily refilled from a nearby cave with lever-linked doors.  I've really been pleased with it.

Well, my goal was to avoid the somewhat ridiculous self-powering systems on the wiki.  I hadn't thought about the direction of the waterwheels, but that actually makes a fair amount of sense.  Thanks for the replies,  I will think about this some more.

Actually, the direction of the water wheel is irrelevant.  I have many water wheels in my current fortress powered by water flowing sideways to the wheel.  What matters is that the water is deeper than a certain depth (I suspect deeper than 4/7, but I haven't tested this) and flagged as flowing.  The problem is that what triggers water to be flagged as flowing is currently somewhat of a mystery.

I agree, I could never really figure out what makes water "flow" when it is clearly all flowing.

[Cotes]

Just wondering, would it help to have a greater inflow than outflow? Either by pumping into 5 tile wide channel with 7 (or more) pumps or by making the drain only (4 or less) tiles wide?

[gtmattz]

Just wondering, would it help to have a greater inflow than outflow? Either by pumping into 5 tile wide channel with 7 (or more) pumps or by making the drain only (4 or less) tiles wide?

No, because then you will end up with a bunch of 7/7 water that wont move your wheels at all, as the pumps will just be teleporting the water to the outflow.

Water does not follow any sort of intuitive rules in DF, unfortunately.

[Quietust]

Power transfers through the gear assemblies above the pump/waterwheel setup.  Each is controlled by a lever, so I can isolate, say, 3 units only.  This is handy for kickstarting it back into operation if it goes offline (like if it overloads), or just for keeping it as lightweight as possible.

I just thought of a possible improvement to that design - reorganize the mechanical linkage on Z+1 so that the generators are connected in parallel instead of in series (see below), then place a pressure plate on each pump's output tile, set it to be triggered by water of depth 2-7, then link it to the pre-toggled gear assembly above the pump. The result will be that each generator will only transmit power to the rest of the system as long as it's actually running - if the water level on the output tile drops below 2/7 for more than 100 steps (which generally shouldn't happen as long as it's running), the pressure plate will release and disconnect the generator so its water wheels will stop dragging down the rest of the system.

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