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Author Topic: What is the underground ecosystem based on?  (Read 6048 times)

ArcaneSaint

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Re: What is the underground ecosystem based on?
« Reply #30 on: August 15, 2010, 03:42:21 pm »

Obviously, a wizard did it!
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breadbocks

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Re: What is the underground ecosystem based on?
« Reply #31 on: August 15, 2010, 04:27:28 pm »

Meh, that one doesn't have any vortex effect. Try a differen't one next time.
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darkrider2

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Re: What is the underground ecosystem based on?
« Reply #32 on: August 15, 2010, 06:01:34 pm »

Or if its Sci-Fi a scientist discovered blah blah blah a long time ago and thats why.

Somewhere inside I want to believe this crazy theory that the reason for underground life and the absence of dwarf-poo are connected. Simply put, there are these tiny bugs kind of like dung beetles that live inside of towercaps and the other trees. When a creatures dumps a load they carry it down and the towercap or whatever decomposes it for energy. And thats how things live underground.
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Urist Imiknorris

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Re: What is the underground ecosystem based on?
« Reply #33 on: August 15, 2010, 06:36:05 pm »

Boys, boys, boys. Don't you know that every time when you try to scientifically speculate about fantasy game, God kills one catgirl?

DF is all about scientifically analyzing fantasy. Obviously this game is an exception to that rule or Toady's algorithms would have driven them extinct.
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Dzenaiya

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Re: What is the underground ecosystem based on?
« Reply #34 on: August 15, 2010, 07:33:02 pm »

Clearly no-one has accounted for dwarven space-time twisting. Those mushrooms are growing from the corpses of the future inhabitants of the fortress, and everything that died by dwarven hands ever. When the bodies rot into nothing, some cavern section somewhere in the world receives an extra layer of mud.
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foradan

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Re: What is the underground ecosystem based on?
« Reply #35 on: August 16, 2010, 10:19:39 am »

Boys, boys, boys. Don't you know that every time when you try to scientifically speculate about fantasy game, God kills one catgirl?

In this game, any way to control the catsplosion is a good thing.
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Shadowfury333

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Re: What is the underground ecosystem based on?
« Reply #36 on: August 16, 2010, 03:44:04 pm »

Boys, boys, boys. Don't you know that every time when you try to scientifically speculate about fantasy game, God kills one catgirl?

Damn.

My military needed to kill that catgirl.

Anyway, I could see the geophages/sulfur-eating life could work as a base, given how much closer to the surface magma is here than in real life.
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breadbocks

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Re: What is the underground ecosystem based on?
« Reply #37 on: August 16, 2010, 05:20:41 pm »

Boys, boys, boys. Don't you know that every time when you try to scientifically speculate about fantasy game, God kills one catgirl?

Damn.

My military needed to kill that catgirl.

Anyway, I could see the geophages/sulfur-eating life could work as a base, given how much closer to the surface magma is here than in real life.
How much closer is it? We don't know how long an urist is, seeing as how an entire Bronze Colossus can fit in one square. Could be that dwarf skin is incredibly heat nonsensitive.
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NW_Kohaku

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Re: What is the underground ecosystem based on?
« Reply #38 on: August 16, 2010, 10:06:32 pm »

I honestly like to think that the massive, massive caverns that riddle every planet in DF in the new versions in an "Underdark" fashion are actually created by some sort of giant plant/fungus hybrid... CREATURE that eats through rock, and leaves behind a massive trail of nutrients and biomass, plentiful enough for efficient decomposers to last centuries upon, easily mistaken for mere "mud".  What actually powers this creature may be unkowable. If not magma, perhaps within itself, it contains a power-syphoning portal to another dimension?

Eventually, the dwarves may come face-to-face with this Zuggtomy-like presence, and be faced with the question of whether to abandon their halls to this menace, or potentially kill the one thing that makes their subterranean way of life possible... if they even CAN strike it down.
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Vercingetorix

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Re: What is the underground ecosystem based on?
« Reply #39 on: August 16, 2010, 10:34:22 pm »

I always figured it was similar to the Underdark in the sense that the caverns begin as natural formations expanded by conventional underground organisms, many of which are similar to their surface counterparts, and then become progressively weirder and more alien the further down you get, until of course you reach hell (which is similar to the intrusions of the Far Realm or the Shadowdark in the blasphemous 4th Ed., with a bunch of weird and malevolent creatures completely alien in form lurking in areas where the planes overlap).

« Last Edit: August 16, 2010, 10:36:44 pm by Vercingetorix »
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Rotten

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Re: What is the underground ecosystem based on?
« Reply #40 on: August 17, 2010, 03:32:12 am »

If you look in the RAW’s descriptions of the plants, many of the ones farther down feed on “evil”. That seems to suggest some kind of ecosystem based on a pairing of magma-based food generation and some sort of magical energy field, perhaps with the magma heat acting in a similar way that light does for surface plants, with magical energy being absorbed ala water or cO2. However, because of gravity, this seems unlikely- how would a community be sustained via the bottom up? Instead, it makes much more sense to classify the underground much like a producer food chain- the main energy inputs being at the surface, and energy gradually descending the layers, often taking centuries, before the debris is finally absorbed by the bottom-most mushrooms and slimes along with their daily diet of demonic souls and pure magma.

The most likely method for the original input of nutrients is the surface- though entrances are sparse; the cave system is huge and world-spanning. There are many input points, and roaming animals such as giant bats can carry the input from, say, a dead elf corpse tossed in by an adventurer halfway across the world before being shot down and eaten by a ratman tribe, for example. Therefore the mushrooms at the top level are almost more common to trees than they are with their deeper cousins, feeding on water, air and nutrients provided by corpses, bat poop and the surrounding rock instead of dirt. In fact, these plants are probably descended on a completely different evolutionary branch than the deep-shrooms, coming from plants instead of…demons, I guess. Sedentary demons. Anyways. As these shrooms die, or the animals that consume them die, they gradually work their way down to layer two, which I would equate to about the mushrooms you find on your typical victory over the elves, er, dead tree. They are descended from the surface mushrooms, but do not need/need very small amounts of cO2, probably getting more rising up from the third cavern level’s magma pools then from the stagnant air currents from the surface/level one. In fact, the only air movement at all would be slight updrafts around magma pipes. These mushrooms would probably survive on rock nutrients and dead things from the upper levels. When these, in turn die, they get cast off into the third cavern layer. This, as said before, combines their nutrients with baby souls and magma heat to grow ungodly huge.

The big uncertainty in this, of course, is forgotten beasts. While megabeasts/semimegas would have a small impact on the environment (just adding more organics to layer one, really), I can easily imagine a long-lived forgotten beast supporting an entire miniature ecosystem with one of their odder traits. Even a forgotten beast that sweats acid could be useful to some species of DF shroom, I imagine, especially considering their rate of evolution (I guess a wizard did it or something).

Tl;dr: The mushrooms are eating our rocks!
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Urist Imiknorris

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Re: What is the underground ecosystem based on?
« Reply #41 on: August 17, 2010, 06:14:36 am »

My question is why do things that are said to feed on evil only present in evil areas? It would make sense for them to be more common there due to more evil to eat, but wouldn't it make sense for there to be neutral/good areas that had a lot of evil until the underground creatures ate most of it? Perhaps the goodness of a surface area could be caused by the inherent evil of the place being consumed by these creatures, provided evil is both finite and replenishing? Then again, if it isn't replenishing, this would explain the lack of evil-feeding creatures in good areas - overpopulation lead to starvation.

EDIT: Also, I can imagine hairy forgotten beasts as being able to support colonies of small animals living on them through food particles stuck in their fur.
« Last Edit: August 17, 2010, 06:16:22 am by Urist Imiknorris »
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Vercingetorix

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Re: What is the underground ecosystem based on?
« Reply #42 on: August 17, 2010, 01:27:22 pm »

Shoot, I had a post detailing similarities between surface and subterranean crops as well as the blood thorn/glumprong but just lost it...
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Hyndis

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Re: What is the underground ecosystem based on?
« Reply #43 on: August 17, 2010, 01:32:06 pm »

Some organisms feed upon chemical energy and need no contact with the surface at all. Magma is all they need to survive. The heat of magma as well as sulfur compounds are metabolized by the base of the food chain. Other creatures then eat those creatures. They thrive on darkness, magma, and minerals from deep underground.
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Vercingetorix

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Re: What is the underground ecosystem based on?
« Reply #44 on: August 17, 2010, 01:43:52 pm »

Some organisms feed upon chemical energy and need no contact with the surface at all. Magma is all they need to survive. The heat of magma as well as sulfur compounds are metabolized by the base of the food chain. Other creatures then eat those creatures. They thrive on darkness, magma, and minerals from deep underground.

An interesting question is what role nether-caps play in all this.  Presumably they're what make it possible for the trees aside from blood thorns (which are the only subterranean trees that do not require water in the caverns to grow) to survive in the 3rd cavern by keeping temperatures cool enough.  Whether this is actually true in game appears to be unlikely, but in terms of intent it seems pretty plausible.  A forest full of nether-caps would probably be enough to keep the caverns quite chilly even with the presence of a magma pipe.

The blood thorn's density may also reflect its different metabolism, while the black cap also reflects the lack of light. 
« Last Edit: August 17, 2010, 01:45:32 pm by Vercingetorix »
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