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[Viken]

No.  You do literallly get to craft your own dungeon, digging out the rooms and stuff. That has already been admitted. *Nod nods*

[Zangi]

I'm going to reclassify this as a Dungeon Tycoon of sorts, so that I won't be as disappointed that it isn't DK.

[Vattic]

I'm now a little less excited about this. What they are describing sounds odd, entertaining heroes? hopefully it will be decent. I'm now looking forward to the fan remake, mentioned earlier in the thread, more than that mentioned in the OP. I need more information really.

[Viken]

Yea, some real, good RP and a video of real gameplay should sooth everyones aggrivation in it.  But even so, I think it works.  Buying a chest full of gold items to be pillaged, in order to 'fullfill' the heroes sounds like a nifty thing to do, only to suck them up and spit them out for their bright soul energy. XD  I'm just okay with teh entire concept.

[Heavenfall]

No multiplayer?! Bollocks! DK2 had some of the best multiplayer I've seen in a god game. Definitely lost my interest.

[Neonivek]

No multiplayer?! Bollocks! DK2 had some of the best multiplayer I've seen in a god game. Definitely lost my interest.

They dramatically changed the gameplay by makign the invaders part of how the game is played.

[Kagus]

I think it might possibly work.  Heck, might even be fun, if you can garner some sort of "cat-and-mouse" enjoyment out of stringing along the heroes.  Just treat the "attractions" as a kind of bait in a trap.  Like Roller Coaster Tycoon, except you murder your patrons.

I still don't particularly like the idea of having to do all the dirty work yourself though...  Although with this setup, you can at least try to make some sort of dungeon design that funnels everyone through the 'soul-chargers' and then into your special chambers where you can essentially sit on your ass and smack down everyone coming in.  Effective, although this kind of thing does really cut down on the level of freedom you have in your dungeon design.  Hmm...  I'm still not highly impressed, but I'll sit on it and see what they show us next as it nears completion.

*everything*

I think at this point they could say a mechanical arm will come out of the Xbox and punch you in the nose every time you kill a hero, and you'd still think it was fantastic.

[Heavenfall]

I think at this point they could say a mechanical arm will come out of the Xbox and punch you in the nose every time you kill a hero, and you'd still think it was fantastic.

Now THAT would be something to play with friends!

[Lap]

I enjoyed a lot of Evil Genius, but it was a bit too limited in maps and strategies. However, I really think that games like this new DK could benefit from some sort of grand strategic map. I liked how Evil Genius did theirs, but it kind of forces you to stick with only a couple of bases. Perhaps an overlap map where you choose missions, getting bonuses that you have to choose that later apply to future missions.
 
An X-Com style map where you manage a few bases spread out across the world would be an interesting twist as well. I really just want to see more connection between my dungeon and the bigger picture.

[nenjin]

(21-08-2010 09:57 PM)Nenjin Wrote:  -Assuming they live long enough, will heroes ever try to leave the dungeon? If they've filled their need for gold, fighting and interesting objects, will they just go home, taking all their soul energy with them?

When heroes have fullfilled there needs you gain their soul energy and they'll try to leave the dungeon. However, if you can catch them on their way out, you can imprison them and get the soul energy again. So on happy heroes you have a chance on twice their soul energy.

(21-08-2010 09:57 PM)Nenjin Wrote:  -How do heroes enter the dungeon? When the game starts, are you immediately connected to where heroes enter, or do you have to construct your way to them first, giving you time to plan?

Depends on the map actually. Some will have connected (and open) entrances, others will allow you to dig your own connections.

(21-08-2010 09:57 PM)Nenjin Wrote:  -How difficult are heroes, on average? How much of a threat can they pose to your dungeon heart if you try to let them gain as much soul energy as possible? This may not be a question you can really answer, because it goes to balance, but vital resources that can kill me as a player tend to make me a little nervous. That's a tough balance to strike. Are our monsters just there to keep them "happy", or can we confidently rely on them to defend the important parts of our dungeon?

Normally a hero can deal with several monsters, so they are mainly cannon fodder for heroes (as I read in the DF forum Wink ). However a group of them can compete with a hero. There's also a special Guard monster that you can summon in order to protect your dungeon heart. This one can take on a couple of heroes. Your dungeon lord gets mightier through Prestige (what you get for building nice looking things like light sources / torches / skeletons into your dungeon).
I hope this answers your question.

(21-08-2010 09:57 PM)Nenjin Wrote:  -What causes higher level heroes to enter your dungeon, besides your Dungeon rating? I'm mostly concerned with difficulty, because I like to take these kinds of games very, very slow. Does killing more heroes cause strong heroes to appear, as word of your evil spreads? Or is it totally in your control, by how fast you expand or decorate the dungeon?

Hero levels raise automatically over time because as you say it "word of your evil spreads".
However it would be quite easy to change that increase by editing one file, if the difficulty is really a problem for you.

(21-08-2010 09:57 PM)Nenjin Wrote:  -Are there any buildings the heroes will try to destroy besides the dungeon heart? Will we have to worry about them rampaging around the dungeon, destroying our infrastructure and causing us to be unable to stop them from getting to the dungeon heart?

Nope, heroes are only interested in destroying your dungeon heart (or killing your goblin workers). Your dungeon lord has also a "Teleport to Dungeon Heart" spell so normally you should be able to defend it.

So uh, everyone say hi to chris@realmforge lol.

[Lap]

So wait...by letting heroes rape and pillage my dungeon I gain soul energy? How does that make sense from any perspective?

[nenjin]

I see it like this:

Yes, you're the Dungeon Lord. But classically, in dungeon adventure games or roleplaying games, that's what heroes do. They rape and pillage dungeons. They walk into a rat's nest, kick the mother rat in the face, stomp on her babies, set fire to the nest, then bitch about the xp and the diseases they just got.

Truly villainous bad guys like heroes to be at the top of their game when they chop them down, just to let them know they had no real chance in the first place. So letting heroes get full of adventure and loot, then killing them and harvesting them for twice the soul energy, that sounds devious to me and like it could support a lot of tactical and building decisions in the actual game. Like how best to get them as full as possible, then in a position to get killed before they can leave. I'm glad they're not just going to plow into the heart of your dungeon.

So Realmforge is trying to do something like a dungeon life sim. I'm digging it. It's what I wanted DK to be but it wasn't. On the one hand, I'm thinking the life sim on YOUR end won't be the same. I'm taking a wild guess that you place monster generators and they puke out monsters when heroes get near. If you want them for defense, you build three monster generators (or lairs). I'm guessing you don't have to feed or keep your minions happy, or any of that.

So basically they've taken DKII's model and flipped it, while still keeping you as the Dungeon controller. Soul Energy is what they use to justify it, and they're attaching a bunch of stuff to soul energy so you have a reason for wanting to keep them happy.

I think it works, at least as they describe it. I'm hoping these "torches, skeletons and lanterns" turn out to be semi-interesting. If it's just ever more expensive visual items that bump up hero happiness or whatever...that might get a little boring. It would be nicer if they did something beyond just looking pretty and juicing up heros.

[Fikes]

Can we really go wrong when developers try wacky stuff like this?

Anyone could screw up an interesting idea but I'd say a mediocre Dungeon Keeper Lite is better than a decent FPS/RTS game.

I am looking forward to this game. Hopefully it will be more complicated than Entrance - mobs to kill - treasure room - mobs to kill hero.

[Mephansteras]

Yeah, let's not bash them for trying something new. It might work, it might not, but at least this isn't just a rip-off of something that's been done a hundred times before.

[Vattic]

I am still not as excited as when I made my first post in this topic even with the new information, I am however a little less concerned with the games direction. I'm still more than likely to make the purchase when the time comes but that depends on more information yet again.

but at least this isn't just a rip-off of something that's been done a hundred times before.

A slight exaggeration but I wish there were another hundred games like the first Dungeon Keeper. The humour, atmosphere, and gameplay are just my cup of tea. Admittedly there was room for improvement, some of which was improved in DKII, but I found it be be a solid experience.