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[Lord Herman]

We currently get warnings when we're about to dig into magma or water of the dwarves hitting warm or damp stone. While a cavern isn't as immediately dangerous to dig into as magma or water, it still would be nice if there was a similar warning when I get near an unexplored tile of open space, lest I expose my fort to cave creatures and forgotten beasts.

I must admit I don't know much about real-world digging and mining. Would a miner be able to tell by the sound of the pick hitting the rock whether he was close to digging into an open space? If so, maybe there could be some sort of warning of the dwarves hitting hollow-sounding rock.

[Foehamster]

Where's the fun in that? That's like asking to know if there's open space when you're mining through [redacted] which will reveal [redacted] leading to [redacted].

You'll get your message when you open that can of worms.

[existent]

Actually, this would be nice. It would save me a lot of FPS down the road.

[martinuzz]

I agree both with the OP, and with Foehamster. Not knowing where the HFS is located within the HFS is part of the F.
However, I would like to see a warning before breaching a natural cavern, as the OP does. "Digging destination cancelled, rock sounds hollow".

[Lord Herman]

Oh, I hadn't even thought of the HFS. I agree that there should be no warning when you're about to breach the funhouse.

[thijser]

Well I can see that for fps it might be a good idea however unexpectatly breaching a carvern is fun.

[Urist McCheeseMaker]

"Loose" rock, perhaps. And adamantine does not get "loose". Problem solved!

[Artanis00]

"Loose" rock, perhaps. And adamantine does not get "loose". Problem solved!

It strikes me that if the rock around a cavern is "loose" then you aren't going to have a cavern for much longer.

[Urist McCheeseMaker]

Easier to chip away, I mean.

[existent]

I think that "your miners heard an echo when they hit this rock with their pick" or similar would be the best way to inform you, so long as it doesn't go the way of "digging designation cancelled: wet rock" pause/spam headaches.

On the one hand, I agree that accidentally breaching caverns/HFS/etc is part of the Fun, otherwise it wouldn't be called HFS. It would just be "FS".

On the other hand, not accidentally breaching a cavern when I'm digging my stairwell would be awesome, because firstly, I wouldn't have the FPS drain, and secondly, it would make managing my OCD a bit easier. To be honest, I sometimes turn caverns off.

So, final verdict.... I dunno. Maybe an INIT option to toggle "echo/loose rock/whatever" notifications, where the default is off? I would prefer to have it, but others won't... it's an iffy subject.

[Cotes]

I can only understand the FPS argument, although that never kills my FPS.

[flaming removed - tt]

[Still Standing]

Some people want to play a fortress building SIM.  What's the problem with that?

[Tarran]

If you guys care so much about your FPS, why don't you just turn off caverns entirely? And besides, as far as I've experienced, caverns don't have much of a effect on my FPS... Then again, that's just me. So it could be different for you.

If you guys are worrying about breaching the caverns and releasing horrors into your fortress, why don't you just breach the cavern from above with a single tile stairway and floor if off? Then you can avoid the cavern entirely.

[Artanis00]

Easier to chip away, I mean.

Don't see how that would happen... One would think the rock around a cavern would be harder, since it didn't erode out like the rock beyond it...

Anyway, I think the the echo thing is a good--and workable--idea. You can rationalize caverns echoing and not HFS in a few ways: 1) HFS doesn't doesn't echo at all (the demons eat the sound?), or 2) they echo, but the space inside is so small that the miner can't differentiate the echo from the source.

If you guys care so much about your FPS, why don't you just turn off caverns entirely? And besides, as far as I've experienced, caverns don't have much of a effect on my FPS... Then again, that's just me. So it could be different for you.

If you guys are worrying about breaching the caverns and releasing horrors into your fortress, why don't you just breach the cavern from above with a single tile stairway and floor if off? Then you can avoid the cavern entirely.

That's usually what I do. Sometimes I'll use the exploratory mining techniques to find the cavern, wall off the breach, and map it with a series of fortifications. Sometimes I make a note, save, dig down from the note until I hit a cavern, note the level, kill DF, and then put an up-stair on that level.

I've taken to modifying the caverns on generation anyhow. Lots of water, less small winding passages, all alike. Or just no caverns.

[isitanos]

We currently get warnings when we're about to dig into magma or water of the dwarves hitting warm or damp stone. While a cavern isn't as immediately dangerous to dig into as magma or water, it still would be nice if there was a similar warning when I get near an unexplored tile of open space, lest I expose my fort to cave creatures and forgotten beasts.

I must admit I don't know much about real-world digging and mining. Would a miner be able to tell by the sound of the pick hitting the rock whether he was close to digging into an open space? If so, maybe there could be some sort of warning of the dwarves hitting hollow-sounding rock.

No. Instead all such warnings including being warned about warm/damp stone should be removed, or at least moved to an init option that's off by default. Wussies can turn it on. The old 2D version didn't have any such warning, and it was Fun. Nothing like the risk of a flash-flood to keep you on your toes.