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I'd like to become a professional writer in the next decade.

7 (29.2%)

Less than videogames.

6 (25%)

I am a professional writer.

3 (12.5%)

More than my health.

2 (8.3%)

I'm not sure.

5 (20.8%)

More than videogames.

0 (0%)

Not at all.

1 (4.2%)

Total Members Voted: 24

Voting closed: April 23, 2012, 11:42:36 pm

[Supermikhail]

Sorry for a late reply, and especially to Eugenitor... And, I've just lost an hour of tired structuring of my reply, because of logging in differently, and just for an hour. So, I'll be brief.

cganya, well, my advice about chapters applies mostly to print, I guess (because on the Internet nobody cares). If you work is pretty short, and is frequently chapterized, it's going to look amateur, so, it you ever decide to publish, keep that in mind.

Yeah, descriptions are a matter of taste. I, personally, enjoy works on both ends of the range - the Hobbit, and the Lord of the Rings; and works of Philip K. Dick, in whose stories the protagonist is basically never described, except through thoughts, if I may. But then, this mental description is quite extensive. So, it might be that description is required for fleshing out the story, but it can be of different kinds. Although, for your story I might have pushed it too far... because when you start finding flaws, you tend to find them everywhere.

Eugenitor, I've read it, and a good thing is that it's definitely not boring. However, I've got a few criticisms to share.

If you choose to edit it, pay special attention to the dialogue at the beginning. Up until the first helicopter ride the boys end all their sentences with exclamation marks. Kind of funny.

You tend to switch viewpoints quite haphazardly sometimes. Like the helicopter ride, when we randomly get into the head of both boys, and then Blakesworth. It's pretty confusing, and you could easily handle the story with single carefully chosen protagonist.

Then, it might be debatable, but the scene where the Mom cleans up feels redundant. It's probably because not much happens in this scene, that is, no important information comes up, the Mom is not threatened in any way. It might be related to random view-point switching, because if we had a secure mental anchor, we might feel the scene to be justified just because the protagonist was there.

And finally, the very beginning - it might be tense, or viewpoint disconnect, but the social observation feels out of place and amateur. First, there is no character to tie it to, so, the author speaks up for the first and the last time in the narrative, or something.

Phew. Writing is rewriting.

[Supermikhail]

Well, I write from the point of view of a mainstream reader, supplemented by what I've heard of and read by mainstream publishers. As long as you stay on the Internet with your current style, you'll be fine.

About the first point. Don't you (or one of the boys) say later that they, being more mature than average six-year-olds, kind of scorn normal kids running around and yelling at the park or at the coaster, or something. That was my point. In the beginning they constantly yell like normal kids and swear like adults, but while the swearing gains consistency in the context, their expression of overexcitement doesn't follow through.

Actually, having thought about viewpoints some more - no, you don't see the reader as a free-floating spirit. I didn't feel like a free-floating spirit. You employ the traditional idea of viewpoints, and switch them haphazardly. For me to feel like a freefloating spirit, you'd have to monologize the characters' thoughts, with quotation marks and dialogue tags, probably. And do the whole thing in the present tense. That's how astral travel works. When it's in the past, it's narration. For narration you choose a protagonist, or no protagonist - then there's no inner thoughts at all - and the reader experiences the story through the eyes of the protagonist. Or observes it from the outside, if there is no protagonist. That's kind of how the majority of fiction works - the reader becomes the protagonist, and suddenly the protagonist's problems become the reader's problems, and the reader is immersed and interested. That's not to say that the reader can't switch to a different protagonist, but it requires time, and a lot of skill and effort on the part of the writer, and it can be accompanied by a chapter break or a similar break in the flow, to ease the switch. My favourite example of this is the Man In The High Castle by Philip Dick (who's my favourite writer currently, as you might have guessed), where the sections of a Japanese character are written with a kind of Japanese accent.

Of course, there are fine points, but they are usually relevant for traditional omniscient narration, where the writer is constantly present. In your story, the writer comes up awkwardly in the first paragraph, so I assume that it's actually not intended to be omniscient. Yeah, I understand why the beginning is there, but it could have been done without breaking the tense and the viewpoint.

[lordnincompoop]

I didn't really think this piece deserved its own thread, being so short, but I still wanted feedback on it.

Sorry for necroing this thread I guess, but I'm really quite for of it (that is, the thread) and I think it'll be useful for other people too.

This stands well on its own, I think, but I originally imagined this as the last scene in a much longer story. I think I'll have to chop it up some for it to work that way, but right now I'll keep it as a standalone thing.

Spoiler: Better Days - Ending Scene (click to show/hide)

"Ah, yes, here it is."
It was never really necessary for him to look for the bench some distance from the trail, or make that remark; after all, he had sat on the very same bench every weekend, staring at the clouds or gazing into the impenetrable forest. But it was like greeting an old friend, and old friends should be treated with respect and courtesy.
   Those days at the university seemed so distant, and though it was difficult studying there, he still looked fondly back at the cramming, the procrastination, the always-ill-timed drunken revelry, and the harrowing exams that always seemed to follow. How he desperately searched for whatever shreds of knowledge that survived in the torrents of alcohol, and how he swore off the cursed drink each time only to take it up again.
   But it was the little things that mattered; how, at sunrise after an all-nighter, the first few rays of light would bounce off the whiskey glass just so, making the golden fluid sparkle and the room to be filled with bright, beautiful colours. How there would always be a big, warm meal at the dining hall, and books would always be within one's reach.
   But perhaps the greatest comfort to him, and the reason that he looked back so fondly each time, was that he had purpose. Then, he always knew what to do each day, what to live for. He would spend his days studying, writing and, on occasion, working part-time to finance his studies.
   Then he graduated. He was released upon the world with no idea what to do next or what to aim for. He was stuck in a dead end job as tech support for a company whose customers all seemed to be mentally deficient in some way or another; they'd call in and ask the same question over and over again, or ask about things that were already mentioned in the manual. His boss, never one to take his employees’ ideas - or their intelligence, for that matter - very seriously, would always patronise him whenever they spoke. It seemed almost impossible to gain his respect.
He was always dreaming about "better days". Things would improve; they had to. This couldn't be the end.
"Hah! Better days, indeed."
He'd climb the rungs and be pulled back down again. Or something would force him to step down, or fall down. There were never good jobs - especially in this economic state - for a Bachelor of Nothing like him.
   He did, later, get a job with a travel agency in another state thanks to a family friend. He had to move in with them for a while to keep the job, and though he rather reluctantly abandoned his music and his typewriter, he did remain adamant about bringing this.
   He took it out of his pocket and gave it an experimental shake.
   Once he had arrived at their home, he had begun saving money. In his free time, he’d walk around residential districts and eye out apartments.
   Their house was comfortable enough, but what he wanted was independence. He felt cramped living there, seeing as how he couldn’t say or do the things he wanted. It was also a matter of principle; living with somebody signalled dependence, and as much as he knew then that he was far from independent, he still wanted something – some place – that he could call his own.
   It also gave him purpose, though it never seemed as definite as it was then.
   But as one tried to move up, one would just get busier, and the days never seemed to really get better. You had more things but less time to enjoy them, so you might as well not have had them at all. He had little time for anything, now. Work took up too much of his life, and now he found himself hoping yet again for better days: retirement. Perhaps, he thought, it'll never end.
"To better days then, if they ever come."
He unscrewed the cap and poured some of the drink into a glass, then raised it up against the setting sun, making it glow a fiery orange against the violet-streaked sky.
It really was quite something.

[fqllve]

It was good. You definitely know what you're doing and I don't really think there's anything I could tell you to improve. It was well-written, the character came across as real, and it had a fair amount of conflict. It was a little bit heavy on the summarization rather than dramatization, which I think hurts it as a standalone piece, but it makes sense considering your intentions when writing it.

The only thing I can really say, and it's just some insubstantial mechanical thing, is that I'm not sure the semicolon in

It was also a matter of principle; living with somebody signalled dependence, and as much as he knew then that he was far from independent, he still wanted something – some place – that he could call his own.

belongs where it is. "living with. . ." and "and as much. . ." seem like interjections between the clauses so I would probably place it after at the border of the second independent clause. I'm not sure what the style guides would call for there, though. But that's pretty much pedantic bs which should tell you how well done the work was.

e: Alright. I've reread that sentence a couple of times...and damn if you haven't stumped me. Excuse me while I go diagram this.

e:e: Colon. I suggest a colon since the following is really a commentary on the first clause. Also, I think it was the "living with" that threw me off, as that's not the verb but the subject.

[Supermikhail]

You don't mind if I don't like it?... I mean I've got this vague idea that I was the cause of death of this thread last time. I don't want to put anything into others' soup. But I'll venture a little something.

Like I said, I don't like it because I don't think that starting a story with what everybody already knows is a good idea. At about the middle I started skimming desperately, for something engaging. Not to mention that I never got complete satisfaction. Also for chrissakes, stop your abstract "he" (here addressing everyone whom it may concern). There's quite enough abstraction even without it. Does the namelessness of the protagonist tie up somehow essentially into the plot? It's not hard to come up with a name. Here, here, and here, and look in the links on the last page.

[Fishbreath]

20 years out of date, but another source for names:

http://www.census.gov/genealogy/names/names_files.html

[Supermikhail]

Hey, longbuddy! How's it been? Oh, I remember I wanted to say something unpleasant about your Words. Although with recent developments, it might not be relevant. Still, some time ago, while being Underground, I made this observation: all the tension that has collected in your story somehow seems to fly by your protagonists. That is, they seem to be so powerful that any threat your devices might pose to them appears irrelevant. Please, post your evaluation of this observation.

[Fishbreath]

That's part of why there's been such a long break in that story. I had plans to ramp things up more slowly, but I'm axing those. I really need long-term foes of approximately similar power to my heroes, and we'll be seeing some of those when I pick it back up.

That's still on the back burner, though. My updates have been irregular (owing to limited time) and science-fictiony (because I was in that kind of mood) of late.

[Supermikhail]

That sounds like a plan, captain! Although I still have to see a villain successfully stuck into a plot hole. It's fortunate that you're writing with no regard for posterity, so that you don't need to rewrite your story with newfound plot knots and twists all over... Or are you?

[Urist is dead tome]

Do you guys mind giving my story a review? Specifically My Friend, The King.

[fqllve]

Like I said, I don't like it because I don't think that starting a story with what everybody already knows is a good idea. At about the middle I started skimming desperately, for something engaging. Not to mention that I never got complete satisfaction. Also for chrissakes, stop your abstract "he" (here addressing everyone whom it may concern). There's quite enough abstraction even without it. Does the namelessness of the protagonist tie up somehow essentially into the plot? It's not hard to come up with a name. Here, here, and here, and look in the links on the last page.

I gotta say that I think you're wrong. I like the fact that it's a quiet reflection, it makes it feel like an anecdote, like I could go meet this guy. As for his namelessness, I felt like it added to the character, gave him a feel of ubiquity. And honestly, I didn't even notice that he didn't have a name until well into the story. I was too busy enjoying the prose.

I will agree that the middle was a bit expository, but I definitely got hooked in the beginning.

[lordnincompoop]

Thanks for the feedback you two, much appreciated.

It was good. You definitely know what you're doing and I don't really think there's anything I could tell you to improve. It was well-written, the character came across as real, and it had a fair amount of conflict. It was a little bit heavy on the summarization rather than dramatization, which I think hurts it as a standalone piece, but it makes sense considering your intentions when writing it.

Dramatization?

The only thing I can really say, and it's just some insubstantial mechanical thing, is that I'm not sure the semicolon in

It was also a matter of principle; living with somebody signalled dependence, and as much as he knew then that he was far from independent, he still wanted something – some place – that he could call his own.

belongs where it is. "living with. . ." and "and as much. . ." seem like interjections between the clauses so I would probably place it after at the border of the second independent clause. I'm not sure what the style guides would call for there, though. But that's pretty much pedantic bs which should tell you how well done the work was.

e: Alright. I've reread that sentence a couple of times...and damn if you haven't stumped me. Excuse me while I go diagram this.

e:e: Colon. I suggest a colon since the following is really a commentary on the first clause. Also, I think it was the "living with" that threw me off, as that's not the verb but the subject.

It's now a colon.

You don't mind if I don't like it?

If you mean my prose then yeah, perfectly fine.

Like I said, I don't like it because I don't think that starting a story with what everybody already knows is a good idea.

This is true. As mentioned earlier, if I want this to end the storyline properly I'll have to heavily revise it.

At about the middle I started skimming desperately, for something engaging.

I will agree that the middle was a bit expository, but I definitely got hooked in the beginning.

I didn't really know what to do with the story at around that point, and it seems it shows. Noted, however. I'll see what I can do.

Not to mention that I never got complete satisfaction.

Mind elaborating?

Also for chrissakes, stop your abstract "he" (here addressing everyone whom it may concern). There's quite enough abstraction even without it. Does the namelessness of the protagonist tie up somehow essentially into the plot? It's not hard to come up with a name. Here, here, and here, and look in the links on the last page.

Thanks, that'll be very useful. The namelessness of the lead was rather intentional, and though if I do get around to writing the whole thing he'l def. have a name, he doesn't right here. I didn't think that the name was necessary, to be honest.

[fqllve]

Dramatization?

Just the same thing that Mikhail said, really. It was a lot of reflection in the middle without much going on in the present. Honestly, I think a couple more paragraphs describing the park/trail he's at or something to break it up would fix it completely.

It felt good to me as an end scene though. Like after a timeskip. Kinda reminded me of Part V in On the Road in that sense.

[Supermikhail]

Thanks, that'll be very useful. The namelessness of the lead was rather intentional, and though if I do get around to writing the whole thing he'l def. have a name, he doesn't right here. I didn't think that the name was necessary, to be honest.

Are you a fan of abstract art? How much time can you spend appreciating a couple of circles in a triangle? Personally, I never found anything in them. There's kind of nothing to attract your eye, catch your attention. My mind works with shapes, deconstructs them into primitives, and if there's nothing but primitives, then there's nothing for my mind to do.

Mind elaborating?

I meant you didn't even explain what the guy got out of his pocket. No resolution to the mystery.

It felt good to me as an end scene though. Like after a timeskip. Kinda reminded me of Part V in On the Road in that sense.

Yeah, it might work as an end scene. Not as a stand-alone story.

[Karnewarrior]

I've been thinking about a story that drops a contigent of DF dwarves in the middle of Mitril hall. Is this thread appropriate or should it have it's own thread?