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Poll

How important is writing to you?

I'd like to become a professional writer in the next decade.
- 7 (29.2%)
Less than videogames.
- 6 (25%)
I am a professional writer.
- 3 (12.5%)
More than my health.
- 2 (8.3%)
I'm not sure.
- 5 (20.8%)
More than videogames.
- 0 (0%)
Not at all.
- 1 (4.2%)

Total Members Voted: 24

Voting closed: April 23, 2012, 11:42:36 pm


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Author Topic: Bay12 Writers Guild  (Read 58874 times)

Vertigon

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Re: Bay12 Writers Guild
« Reply #360 on: December 10, 2010, 10:13:07 pm »


Spoiler: Analysis (click to show/hide)

Clocked at about 1000 words, I think. So dig in, and enjoy! Also criticize. Lots.
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Supermikhail

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Re: Bay12 Writers Guild
« Reply #361 on: December 11, 2010, 02:56:09 am »

So I could use some objective (and harsh) criticism. But since I want to get this particular story ready for submission I can't just go ahead and post the whole thing. The best thing I could come up with is to post an excerpt and offer to send the rest to anyone who is interested.

It's about dreams and reality presented as a bleak surrealistic fairy tale and following a girl and her brother who have an innate aptitude for permeating barriers.

It's a short story and runs around 4000 words.

Spoiler: star sequent (click to show/hide)
Hey, grammar anarcho-communist, not enough grammar :P First, the sentence second to last apparently should be in the present tense. Second, why no capitals? Third, the second paragraph kind of falls out. In the sense that I couldn't get into it - the other paragraphs are sort of objective, descriptive, this one is abstract, a sharp transition, unwelcome by the brain. Fourth, I hope that's not how it starts. Neither the way it goes, nor, and especially, the way it starts, contributes to immersion. I'm not sure if you don't intend it this way, but putting a name here and there could be helpful. Or something to tell who the protagonist is, besides the gender.

Vertigon, gonna read the ramblings after I come back from the Uni.
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Vertigon

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Re: Bay12 Writers Guild
« Reply #362 on: December 11, 2010, 04:03:14 am »

That's fine :D
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Supermikhail

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Re: Bay12 Writers Guild
« Reply #363 on: December 11, 2010, 11:44:35 am »


Spoiler: Analysis (click to show/hide)

Clocked at about 1000 words, I think. So dig in, and enjoy! Also criticize. Lots.

What can I say? That seems a good way above ramblings of a flu-stricken, sleep-deprived man. I mean, pretty coherent. ::)
However, first, you want a dash, not a hyphen, as explained in this article. Second, now that you've done it like that I'm not very sure, but still, the story structure you were going for is similar to the structure of a joke - you have the setup and the punchline, except that it's not funny (well, some people might find the story so). And just like with a joke, you have neither any time to waste, nor can you be too hasty - both can ruin the punchline (unfortunately, can't come up with a good example right now). You have to be skilled in directing attention, too... To cut to the chase, the joke is kind of long, also it's confusing when you don't indicate in any way that it's Urist who thinks that "he crafted artifacts of immense value". The story isn't attached to Urist enough, to do it itself... Well, and you have to try pretty hard to express all you've listed under Analysis, in 1000 words. To come close, you have to make Urist much more important, get into his head, etc.

I'll venture to conclude with praise, and say that it's actually a pretty fresh twist, at least for DF.
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fqllve

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Re: Bay12 Writers Guild
« Reply #364 on: December 11, 2010, 03:17:24 pm »

Hey, grammar anarcho-communist, not enough grammar :P First, the sentence second to last apparently should be in the present tense. Second, why no capitals? Third, the second paragraph kind of falls out. In the sense that I couldn't get into it - the other paragraphs are sort of objective, descriptive, this one is abstract, a sharp transition, unwelcome by the brain. Fourth, I hope that's not how it starts. Neither the way it goes, nor, and especially, the way it starts, contributes to immersion. I'm not sure if you don't intend it this way, but putting a name here and there could be helpful. Or something to tell who the protagonist is, besides the gender.

Haha, would you believe that I actually both love and study grammar? And that it's actually from the third revised draft so there shouldn't be a single grammatical error in it?

1- That's supposed to be in past. It's basically the narrator reflecting on everything that happened in the paragraph before they collide. Is it too distracting?

2- Haha There aren't any apostrophes either. That's just how I write. If it hadn't have already been typed up I probably would have added them though, since I already use both on the forums anyway.

3- Yeah, I was trying to echo her transition there, which is equally abrupt. But it doesn't really seem to add anything does it? I wonder if it works better in context. (e: After thinking about it, I'm going to replace that paragraph with scene setting)

4- No it's not the beginning, it's from the middle of the first scene. Most of the preceding text is spent on characterizing her, although I don't think she gets named until the second scene.

Anyway, thank you, that was exactly the type of criticism I need.
« Last Edit: December 11, 2010, 03:51:52 pm by fqllve »
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Supermikhail

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Re: Bay12 Writers Guild
« Reply #365 on: December 11, 2010, 03:52:52 pm »

Huh. That probably works in context, what do you think? For the abuse of my critical thinking, though, I'm glad that you appreciate my feedback.

1. I don't think it works like that... You're sort of in the present *continuous* and, well, switching slightly to the past... has to be too quantum-physics for any reader.

2. Er. But then, it's for submission? Hey, tell me about this place! I actually hate this <Shift> button!

3. It might work better in context. If the context has some mind-bwargling equal or greater than this. Basically, how it works - I can generate a mental image out of other two paragraphs, but I've got no idea how to imagine memories plucked out of a person's skull, much less some "parts". It could help if it was clear parts of what were plucked out. I imagine it's parts of skull, and the horror imagery kind of doesn't fit with the rest of the narrative.

4. Okay. Although between your story and Vertigon's I find myself suddenly tending to the point of view that the reader needs a character he/she can relate to very much. Before I kind of didn't care, because I wanted to be original in everything. And from your two stories I deduce that critical aspects of this relation are a distinct personality, including a name, and a consistent point-of-view. Thank you very much, I guess, for this revelation. ;)
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fqllve

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Re: Bay12 Writers Guild
« Reply #366 on: December 11, 2010, 04:23:47 pm »

1- Yeah, I know. I was just hoping I could get away with one sentence in the past there. I like it better both in reference to meaning and sound. Better to try and fail right?

2- This isn't the submission draft. That'll probably be d5, which will be retyped. But let's be honest about my chances at publication anyway.

3- Haha, well I'm getting rid of it anyway, but yeah a little more imagery there would have been good. It's supposed to be that she forgets herself, and the "pieces of herself" are facets of her personality. Because we go into dreams with little to no context.

4- =/ That's a little unfair. Actually, my biggest concern is that the story focuses too much on her. Nearly half the sentences in it are about her thoughts and actions. It's just that I liked calling her the girl.
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Supermikhail

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Re: Bay12 Writers Guild
« Reply #367 on: December 11, 2010, 04:31:20 pm »

2. Errr. I've no idea about your chances at publication, to be fair. It depends in part on where you want to publish it, and you don't seem to be too willing to share your secret.

4. Spice it up with some more descriptions, I suspect that you frequently run into the problem of repetitive sentence structure if it's nearly all on her, and you prefer to use pronouns.
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fqllve

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Re: Bay12 Writers Guild
« Reply #368 on: December 11, 2010, 06:06:00 pm »

Oh, were you actually curious? I thought you were just making fun of me, haha. I haven't picked a particular journal yet, but I planned to start with ones that publish experimental fiction, then run through SF publications, and end up with a free online journal. The last is the only one I have any confidence that it'll be accepted for though.
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You don't use freedom Penguin. First you demand it, then you have it.
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Vertigon

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Re: Bay12 Writers Guild
« Reply #369 on: December 11, 2010, 07:31:22 pm »

What can I say? That seems a good way above ramblings of a flu-stricken, sleep-deprived man. I mean, pretty coherent. ::)
However, first, you want a dash, not a hyphen, as explained in this article. Second, now that you've done it like that I'm not very sure, but still, the story structure you were going for is similar to the structure of a joke - you have the setup and the punchline, except that it's not funny (well, some people might find the story so). And just like with a joke, you have neither any time to waste, nor can you be too hasty - both can ruin the punchline (unfortunately, can't come up with a good example right now). You have to be skilled in directing attention, too... To cut to the chase, the joke is kind of long, also it's confusing when you don't indicate in any way that it's Urist who thinks that "he crafted artifacts of immense value". The story isn't attached to Urist enough, to do it itself... Well, and you have to try pretty hard to express all you've listed under Analysis, in 1000 words. To come close, you have to make Urist much more important, get into his head, etc.

I'll venture to conclude with praise, and say that it's actually a pretty fresh twist, at least for DF.

Yeah, the problem was that I wasn't all that interested in Urist, and I involved him in the story way too much. It's not so much about him as it is Irongates, and to an extent the artifact.
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Supermikhail

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Re: Bay12 Writers Guild
« Reply #370 on: December 12, 2010, 04:59:20 am »

Oh, were you actually curious? I thought you were just making fun of me, haha. I haven't picked a particular journal yet, but I planned to start with ones that publish experimental fiction, then run through SF publications, and end up with a free online journal. The last is the only one I have any confidence that it'll be accepted for though.
Hm. Correct my Ruslish, please, but didn't you mean "magazine", not "journal"? And I guess I was just curious, as I myself haven't looked into any magazines (journals?) to publish my works in - for some reason I want to start with a novel. Actually, I prefer reading novels to reading short stories, at least when I'm not on the Internet, I guess that's a reason.

Yeah, the problem was that I wasn't all that interested in Urist, and I involved him in the story way too much. It's not so much about him as it is Irongates, and to an extent the artifact.
Yeah, should have omitted Urist then. The name gives him quite a bit of importance.
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fqllve

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Re: Bay12 Writers Guild
« Reply #371 on: December 12, 2010, 11:59:39 am »

Ah, no, both words are correct. Here journal is short for "literary journal." It's the same usage as like science journal. Of course, most magazines publish short fiction too, but they publish much less so it's a lot more competitive. They pay considerably more though.

And I prefer to read novels too. It's nice to sit down with a short story collection every once in a while, but novels are the bread and butter of fiction. They're so much harder to write though.
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You don't use freedom Penguin. First you demand it, then you have it.
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Vertigon

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Re: Bay12 Writers Guild
« Reply #372 on: December 12, 2010, 01:32:04 pm »

Yeah, the problem was that I wasn't all that interested in Urist, and I involved him in the story way too much. It's not so much about him as it is Irongates, and to an extent the artifact.
Yeah, should have omitted Urist then. The name gives him quite a bit of importance.

Mmkay, thanks :D
Every little bit helps
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Supermikhail

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Re: Bay12 Writers Guild
« Reply #373 on: December 16, 2010, 04:16:34 am »

Hey, can somebody offer some competent organiser advice? I've got a collection of my works at Scribd.com, it's nice and growing, but what it started with was very amateurish and what I hope I've advanced beyond now. Also, it has several drafts of a story along with the finished version.

Basically, what I can't decide is if I should remove the mediocre stuff and drafts? Can it be somehow useful to me/others in the future?
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Supermikhail

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Re: Bay12 Writers Guild
« Reply #374 on: December 19, 2010, 05:42:53 am »

Hm. Maybe someone could advise me on whether a chemical novel is a good idea. I've got to do something educationally chemical for my undergraduate project, and I'm starting to doubt if I'm going to pull of a game. I think an inspirational novel could do, too. Problem is, I'm not sure how good an idea a gimmicky novel is.
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