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I'd like to become a professional writer in the next decade.

7 (29.2%)

Less than videogames.

6 (25%)

I am a professional writer.

3 (12.5%)

More than my health.

2 (8.3%)

I'm not sure.

5 (20.8%)

More than videogames.

0 (0%)

Not at all.

1 (4.2%)

Total Members Voted: 24

Voting closed: April 23, 2012, 11:42:36 pm

[Vector]

You're aware that B12 writing group has variable membership? No single book will fix anything. I'll add it to the OP, though.

Of course I am.  I also know that it's the single best book I've ever read on plotting and characterization, and that I haven't read anything here that was blindingly stellar in either.

[Talanic]

Due to Tumblr being down, it doesn't look like my next post will be up today.  Still, I'm trying to work to extend the current chapter up to at least 2k words.

The funny thing is, the chapter AFTER the current one is already 2.5k words...and was one of the most fun chapters to write.

[Supermikhail]

Vector: Well, after having read a shittone of instructory stuff and the like, I've become of opinion that it's not really the best approach. Sure, if you want to earn a quick buck and don't have a lot of time, they'll help you craft a one-time bestseller. Writing something worthwhile isn't about that. It's about getting in the mood (or the blues), getting comfy, and letting yourself out on paper or most likely on a computer display.

And I'm not implying that Lajos Egri is a crappy step-by-step manual. Any book that tries to teach writing. In the end, whatever they say, writing isn't about grammar, sentence structure, repetition, acts etc. It's about ideas. You can't teach a person to have an awesome idea. They have to know it. And most know it when they set out writing, but get bogged down in sleepless nights, asshole superiors, shitty TV-shows, and "helpful" writing textbooks.

Talanic: Yeah, yesterday I go to my bookmarks and what the hell? Where's my weekly piece of sci-fi? However, I foresee that a double update is going to be a worthy compensation.

[Vector]

And I'm not implying that Lajos Egri is a crappy step-by-step manual. Any book that tries to teach writing. In the end, whatever they say, writing isn't about grammar, sentence structure, repetition, acts etc. It's about ideas. You can't teach a person to have an awesome idea. They have to know it. And most know it when they set out writing, but get bogged down in sleepless nights, asshole superiors, shitty TV-shows, and "helpful" writing textbooks.

Right.  In this case, it says "Once you have an idea--something you want to express--here is how to make sure that the audience will feel tension and interest in your work, and feel it is believable."

I don't think it's a good book to read in your moment of passion.  I think it's a book to read right when you feel like giving up writing, when you don't know what to do anymore.  That's when one should read manuals on writing, to provide a little bit of motivation and advice.

[Supermikhail]

Well, not that I don't agree entirely, but just to keep some tension. When you feel like giving up writing, you've got problems with your life, not your writing! Or you don't have the problems that made you write in the first place. In any case, story structure won't help you there. Go talk to your wife, kids or president. Or give away all your money and live in the street for a month, that's what you've got to do.

[Vector]

Ah, for me I get so frustrated with my technical deficiencies that I stop being able to write for months.  Then I come back once I've solved them, and start working again.

Maybe I'm speaking mostly to people like myself ^_^;;  But, if there are any on here, then maybe the recommendation will help.

[Supermikhail]

There probably are. But at the same time, there's a lot of very poor people.

[Vector]

There probably are. But at the same time, there's a lot of very poor people.

Er... I'm not fully sure I understand.  What does poverty have to do with a book recommendation?

[Supermikhail]

Um.

Well, not that I don't agree entirely, but just to keep some tension. When you feel like giving up writing, you've got problems with your life, not your writing! Or you don't have the problems that made you write in the first place. In any case, story structure won't help you there. Go talk to your wife, kids or president. Or give away all your money and live in the street for a month, that's what you've got to do.

There probably are. But at the same time, there's a lot of very poor people.

[Vector]

Ah, I guess.  Sorry, it's really late here.

[Talanic]

I figured, since I was late, I'd just post the next two chapters.  Enjoy!

[Supermikhail]

Whoa... I... whoa...

Disappointment, sir. Disappointment. In blatant violation of Dialogue Regulations p. 2C "Character Confusion", you've failed to identify characters to resort to sexual innuendo instead of quality writing to appeal to your readers. I am forced to ask you to amend this immediately... 

  Seriously, that was silly (although I understand that it's popular with modern fantasy fans), the chapter's still short for its actual content, not length (conflict-resolution seems is getting more and more appealing), and the ending bit of dialogue, almost completely untagged, is confusing as hell.

Also, I come home and find a bunch of writing threads pop up here. It's either a drought or a flood, and nobody cares for my schedule.

[Talanic]

I'm sorry.  It may just be that I've been horribly sick all day - probably ate something bad yesterday - but I'm having trouble understanding your complaint.  It's the one chapter that received the most positive reactions except from you, and I'd like to understand why.

I'm only operating at about 10% capacity, though.  So keep in mind that the problem might just be me.

[Supermikhail]

Okay. Maybe it'll work better with examples.

“Just, keep an eye on the dealer if he’s wearing long sleeves?”

“Give it a rest!”

“Is that why it’s called p—”

“Finish that joke and I will slap you. I swear!”

“Or do you prefer stud?”

Do you find it easy to tell whose words are whose? I actually still can't grasp the content of this exchange because I don't have a mental image of the speaker... Or maybe I read too fast. But that's how fast I'm going to read if I'm interested in what I'm reading.

In general, I find that such short exchange doesn't work too well in fiction, because you need to attach an image to the words, probably, and you kind of don't have enough time. It works in musicals, but there you can see the speakers, and it all has a tempo, and music.

In short, that sexual bickering comes off amateurish, but as long as you aim your writing at teenagers on the Internet, it rocks.

And when people warn be about something, I'm more than likely to do just the opposite, so I hope you can gather some coherent meaning from my reply.

[fqllve]

So I could use some objective (and harsh) criticism. But since I want to get this particular story ready for submission I can't just go ahead and post the whole thing. The best thing I could come up with is to post an excerpt and offer to send the rest to anyone who is interested.

It's about dreams and reality presented as a bleak surrealistic fairy tale and following a girl and her brother who have an innate aptitude for permeating barriers.

It's a short story and runs around 4000 words.

Spoiler: star sequent (click to show/hide)

so she sits. and in her mind she practices her scales. each note she strains to hear with perfect pitch and clarity. for a long time she does this. scales and modes—mixolydian, melodic minor—over and over, rigidly adhering to a silent metronome beat in her head. how much time passes she cannot say. she sits there in a meditative state, concentrating on truly hearing the notes, bright and clear. but this was what she had been doing before when they came to her and it would end the same way. she knows this, and she is left in twilight. section by section her brain begins to shut down until finally the ringing begins again. her body sags to the left and her eyes begin to close. she can feel it, tugging at her center. the dull clang feels like its breaking up into static. she cannot help but listen closer, picking pieces out of the noise. this time she cannot retain herself as she falls away. she dreams.
   
all of her must meet this transition. parts and memories plucked out and discarded, pushed out of her skull and falling to the ground where she once was. left behind like trash, not relevant to the field in which she now stands. all context of situation dissolved. so she does not question the new.
   
she is standing alone and can feel the wind brushing against her arms. her body prepares to step forward but she is caught momentarily by a wall off in the distance. she loses herself in everything. it becomes impossible to tell where the air ends and she begins. the universe is a vast continuum with no lines—only haze. then, just as suddenly, she is born anew, standing by the brick and mortar wall with its slate grey lining off over the curve of the earth. the world is lit up by her perception and outside of it the world is still, waiting for her candlelight to rouse. and so she sees only the wall, dearest wall, clever wall, and nothing else lives. as she follows it to its obscured end she can feel that distant point speeding towards her, the wind rushing by it rushes by her as if the two were intertwined. she as much it, in its journey to her. so anxious was it for her embrace that it willed her to it, empath that she was she could not resist. the two collide.