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[Dr. Johbson]

Curse you and your computer that isn't 5 years old!

[Puck]

I must be one of the few people that found Mafia 1 clunky, awkward and barebones.

You're not alone. I started playing it on the PS2 and... Never touched it ever again.

Probably because Mafia 1 on-foot parts were mostly a proper fps. And we all know how FPS actually need to be played.
Protip: not with a dualshock- (or any stick-) controller

Mafia 1 was "nothing more" than a GTA-Clone, but a pretty decent one, at that. That Joe Pesci guy was a little bit too obvious, I thought. I mean, he looked and sounded just like Joe Pesci, and his character arc was pretty much that of Joe Pesci in any given movie with Joe Pesci (NOT "Home Alone", tho!). I'm just repeating that name that often because the devs seemed to be really fond of Joe Pesci. As if they were trying to say "LOOK, WE GOT JOE PESCI."

Which was weird, because it was just a little digital person and not the real Joe Pesci.

Joe Pesci... yeah, that's gonna be pretty much the only deciding factor. Whether or not they have Joe Pesci again, and whether or not he gets killed off -again- for the same reasons.

I'm just not sure about I'd rather buy with or without Joe Pesci, but yeah, Joe Pesci.

[Ioric Kittencuddler]

Haven't played the demo yet but the moment I heard it was coming out multiplatform my expectations sunk appropriately so I suppose I ought not to be too disappointed.  Mafia 1 on the PC was one of my favorite games at the time.  It still bewilders me how people can keep thinking it's a sandbox game just because it had big levels and cars.  "Sandbox game" is not defined as a game where you play a criminal and can both drive cars and run around on foot...

The PS2 version was crap from what I've read, and that isn't surprising since the game was actually designed for the PC from the ground up.  Yes, it's that old.  The sequel will have to cater to the lowest common denominator for both hardware and audience.

EDIT: Puck, who are you talking about?  Paulie?

[Puck]

OF COURSE! WHO ELSE?

Isn't Joe Pesci called "Paulie" in one of those movies, too? Was it Casino? I don't remember...

[Ioric Kittencuddler]

Paulie really doesn't remind me much of Joe Pesci.  The only reason I thought of him was because he's the only significant character with even a slight resemblance. :-/

[Ssiissuu]

 I enjoyed Mafia 1 for the story, characters, and the setting. I didn't play Mafia 1 for the sandbox as I felt the GTA series did sandboxy'ness well, though going for a drive about in Mafia was very engrossing and engaging in its own right. Mafia 1 had a sandbox but often it felt empty and bereft of impact, there was reaction from the world but only in a limited and halting manner. Speed was enforced, yet not other traffic laws. You could stop for gas, yet never really had to. So much more could have been done to fully realise the sandbox, and since these things were left out I always felt in a sense that the sandbox was an afterthought, some effort was made but the developers were forced to quit the sandbox early, perhaps. The GTA series has always felt the opposite to me, a world to play about in with some story elements. GTAIV was a step towards Mafia 1, I felt, in many regards but most notably in the importance and quality of the story, characters, and background.

 From what little I can ascertain from the demo, the Mafia series seems to be trying to take a step towards GTA, in terms of the sandbox and 'emergent gameplay'. With only 10 minutes to wander in free roam, it's difficult to get a coherent sense of what the new game is trying to accomplish for certain, but there is much more of a reaction from the world when you decide to muck about. Mafia 1 felt to me like a game that sacrificed the sandbox fun of the GTA series for a better story, and I was happy with that. I'm keen to see whether Mafia 2 has sacrificed time spent on the story in order to bring about a bigger, better, and more rounded sandbox feel.

 I'll likely enjoy the game either way as I am the sort that wanders down the streets and alleys of make believe cities while peering into the windows of buildings I can never enter, marveling at the skyscrapers looming above, and noting the myriad details of the gutters below. The demo alone provides this sort of eye candy in spades.

 P.S. The loading times are phenomenal.

[Xotes]

wordswordswords

I kind of fail to see how it being multi-platform is a bad thing. But, eh, to each their own. I tried out the demo and liked it, although I really only went around beating people up and getting myself killed by ramming into a wall at eighty-plus miles an hour. Good times.

[Puck]

I kind of fail to see how it being multi-platform is a bad thing.

It isnt, per se, but more often than not this means

cater to the lowest common denominator for both hardware and audience.

And there you have it.

[Virtz]

Whoever says Mafia 1 was a crappy GTA clone really needs to go back and play the only other GTA-like game at the time - GTA 3.

Mafia 1 had cars where you could puncture and blow off wheels, shoot the driver or even puncture the gas tank. GTA3 had mobile HP-boxes.

Mafia 1 had AI that drove like normal people. GTA3 had morons who bumped into each other and sometimes ignored the player's vehicle, attempting to drive through it.

Mafia 1 had semi-accurate driving physics for vehicles at the time, the driver could sustain damage from crashes and could shoot in all possible directions from the window. GTA3 vehicle physics were horrible and the driver could only ever shoot in two directions.

Mafia 1 had a good storyline. GTA3 had a numbnuts silent protagonist.

Basically Mafia 1 was the more serious game focused on storyline. GTA3 was focused on lulz. For a "clone" (even though they were released within a year of each other), it was better in many aspects compared to the "original".


Now, as far as Mafia 2 goes, it definately took a step towards something. Be it GTA4 or Saint's Row 2, it's more or less the same. The drivers are idiots who bump into each other and get shot by the cops. There's a health regeneration system in place. You can carry a shotgun and a tommy gun or hide both in your pockets. It's pretty easy to ditch the cops, although harder than in GTA4 or SR2 due to them remembering you until you change clothes.

It feels like most of the effort went towards the better graphics and implementing the APEX Physx thing. The GTA4-like activities feel like an afterthought, though. At least in the demo there's no purpose behind doing anything besides buying a gun or changing clothes. So here's hoping it's more like Mafia 1 in terms of storyline.

[Josephus]

Oh oh oh you also forgot to mention that Mafia 1 had a pretty cool police-chase mechanic, as well.

[Medicine Man]

Yeah that was pretty awesome.

[head]

I'm so getting this.

[nenjin]

Like I said, realism is good and all, but immersion is only so much fun. That's why GTA3 did better. It was more fun. I'm sure some mafioso buffs were thrilled they basically got to play Paul Sorvino movie, but it was booooooorrrrrrrrriiiiiiiiinnnnnnnggggggggg. All the realism aspects did little for me when shooting was terrible, cars were slow (and got slower as they were damaged) and the physics were damn near non-existent.

I respect what it tried to do. Just not the altar some people worship at. And obviously the 'ultra realism' didn't go over that well, because it took them 8 years to produce a sequel that basically threw out all that crap out.

[Virtz]

Like I said, realism is good and all, but immersion is only so much fun. That's why GTA3 did better. It was more fun. I'm sure some mafioso buffs were thrilled they basically got to play Paul Sorvino movie, but it was booooooorrrrrrrrriiiiiiiiinnnnnnnggggggggg. All the realism aspects did little for me when shooting was terrible, cars were slow (and got slower as they were damaged) and the physics were damn near non-existent.

I respect what it tried to do. Just not the altar some people worship at. And obviously the 'ultra realism' didn't go over that well, because it took them 8 years to produce a sequel that basically threw out all that crap out.

"Fun" is a completely subjective matter. It's about as relevant to a video game discussion as your shoe size. Similarly with "immersion".

And whatever you would say about the shooting or physics, I can say it was done much worse in GTA3.

It sold 2 million units total. That's actually very good for an Eastern European studio game released in 2002. And yeah, going for mass appeal now obviously means the previous game was bad.

[nenjin]

Oh right. Anything that has mass appeal must automatically be bad. Because everyone else is obviously stupid.

Or maybe it's that fun, immersion and sales are all a package to be considered at once. And I'll take fun physics any day over lame ass attempts at realism. The most intense physics displayed in Mafia is that your car spins outs.

Dare we compare GTA sales to Mafia 1 and 2? Because I know who is going to lose that one, even after Mafia II sells to the last person who will want to buy it.

There's a middle ground, somewhere, but I'm not sure it's possible to see it when your nose is pointed at the sky.