Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[marchewa]

Does this satisfy you?



(sure, it's always easier to grumble, than to make something by yourself...)

[Thundrim]

A fine and proper engraving! Including the menacing spike. Tis all in the details!

---

[Exponent]

Now we must determine if the misuse of "good" in "How good you know the game" fits the theme of Dwarf Fortress, or if the grammar should be fixed.[/GrammarNazi]

[Draco18s]

*Sigh.*
That graph indicates that after a certain amount of time you suddenly become very very good at the game.

That's not a difficult learning curve (yes, it takes longer to get good, as opposed to flipping it over the line y = x where it means you become good instantly after very little time, then never improve).

A truely difficult game like DF would have a learning curve that is nearly flat:

Very little improvement, regardless of time, or effort spent.

[Exponent]

*Sigh.*
That graph indicates that after a certain amount of time you suddenly become very very good at the game.

That's not a difficult learning curve (yes, it takes longer to get good, as opposed to flipping it over the line y = x where it means you become good instantly after very little time, then never improve).

A truely difficult game like DF would have a learning curve that is nearly flat:

Very little improvement, regardless of time, or effort spent.

The thing is, with a game like DF, for many players there comes a time (if they stick with it long enough) were it all suddenly clicks and starts to make sense.  At which point the player can learn whatever remains in the game relatively quickly, because the conceptual model just acquired makes it all seem so obvious.  At least, that was roughly my experience, and seems to agree with what many others have said also.

[Thundrim]

The message is not so much mathematical, as psychological. You need to climb vertically after traversing dangerous terrain. Maybe you number crunchers can manage to come up with a graph representing every minutia down to the quantum level, and post it so we can be properly educated. But I bet it would be more boring to look at.

---

[Heavenfall]

I love it, marchewa - and I think it's accurate. There are only two types of DF players - new players and elitist jerks. 
This graph properly describes the transformation from not knowing anything at all to knowing everything all the time. It's like someone flipped a switch.

Enough baiting from me!

[marchewa]

A fine and proper engraving! Including the menacing spike. Tis all in the details!

---

And a Giant Corkscrew!

Now we must determine if the misuse of "good" in "How good you know the game" fits the theme of Dwarf Fortress, or if the grammar should be fixed.[/GrammarNazi]

Daaamn... I just knew I will miss something Pardon me, English is not mi first language.

The thing is, with a game like DF, for many players there comes a time (if they stick with it long enough) were it all suddenly clicks and starts to make sense.  At which point the player can learn whatever remains in the game relatively quickly, because the conceptual model just acquired makes it all seem so obvious.  At least, that was roughly my experience, and seems to agree with what many others have said also.

The sudden vertical uprise represents the moment when a player discovers that there is a DF wiki...

[Indricotherium]

I don't care what it means, it's beautiful. Especially the silver giant corkscrew trap and the buried fossils.

EDIT: Damn, ninja-ed by the artist.

[Ratbert_CP]

The learning curve of DF reminds me of the times I've visited/climbed the Mayan ruins in Mexico.  Lots of very steep increments.  A lot of work to get up, but once there...  Wow!

[MaDeR Levap]

This is funny and scary to observe how joke is teared apart and nitpicked to death. Why so serrrioussss...?

Or it is just trolling. Hard to tell.

[breadbocks]

Here is a (realistic) Learning curve for dwarf fortress. Link to page on Graphjam.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

[Draco18s]

There we go, that's better.

[scriver]

Waitaminute.. Doesn't the last one imply that after some time spent playing you cease to understand how the game works?

[Urist McKing]

you guys are right. especially this:

It requires two different levels of required player skill at the same time. I'd say that's impossible. A game can't be both hard and easy.

Edit: Three, even.

we all know that in mathematics there is only one possible (y) for each (x). i think it's just meant to be funny...

But seriously about learning curve, i always thought x is the amount of time, and y is "how good you understand the game". then: for DF the graph would rise very slowly, and for let's just say simcity it would be very steep, because you get to understand sim city much faster. also for simcity at the end it would be very high, and for DF would be lower - i can imagine it is more common to understand simcity in 100% than to understand DF in even 95%4%

Fix'd