Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[FinalSin]

I think I've seen this before...

... only it was some other game, right? 

EVE Online.

[Kogan Loloklam]

I think I've seen this before...

... only it was some other game, right? 

No, for Dwarf Fortress. I'm searching old threads now.

Edit 1: Here's the picture dated from 2009ish, but without the current color codes.
http://www.freeallegiance.org/FAW/index.php/Complex_learning_curve
It existed in 2008 but with quake instead of Dwarf fortress.

Someone on these forums has ripped it off before too though, and I think used very similar games.
I'll keep looking.

[marchewa]

the original I saw was about EVE online:
http://www.google.com/images?q=eve%20online%20learning%20curve&um=1&ie=UTF-8&source=og&sa=N&hl=pl&tab=wi&biw=1191&bih=808

[Kogan Loloklam]

February 24th, 2009.
http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=31179.msg438601#msg438601



Haven't found a direct rip. It appears that it is possible he did in fact make it himself. The hanged men are different, as are the lines, so "I draw it today" part might actually be true. I might be wrong about that. I ran out of time to search.

[Shrugging Khan]

Civ 4 is piss easy, and Europa Universalis is a pushover as well.

Why aren't there any really challenging games out there anymore?

[marchewa]

...
Haven't found a direct rip. It appears that it is possible he did in fact make it himself. The hanged men are different, as are the lines, so "I draw it today" part might actually be true. I might be wrong about that. I ran out of time to search.

Which part of:

I draw it today, but the idea is not mine.

is not clear for you?

[riffraffselbow]

Civ 4 is piss easy, and Europa Universalis is a pushover as well.

Why aren't there any really challenging games out there anymore?

What, no bash on Sim City 3k? That game's easymode.

[Heavenfall]

Well the "old" one made a lot more sense. The new one, which is better made from an art viewpoint, says that dwarf fortress starts out piss easy and only gets hard about halfway through. It also says that the maximum required skill isn't much higher in DF than in the other games, which also doesn't make much sense. In the original, one game started out much, much harder than everything else and then got impossibly hard. Now it's something else.

I mean I like it, only you kind of butchered most of the fun parts, and only kept the "very steep learning curve" part.

[Ironhand]

Caesar III was a delightfully challenging game.

[NW_Kohaku]

Caesar III was a delightfully challenging game.

I was certainly surprised by it.  I went in expecting it would be just a clone of Emperor, but with 3d. 

Wait, what?  I can't just designate the entire map for building all at once before my first immgrants arrive anymore?  I have to use MODERATION?  What happened here?!

[Draco18s]

You people fail at learning curves.  It's not "time and skill" (because more time will always give you more skill) it's "effort and understanding."

http://www.casualgamedesign.com/?p=27

[Jamp]

Yea, I always wondered why you say that df's learning curve is steep. From the graphs here it would mean that you get skill very fast.

[NW_Kohaku]

You people fail at learning curves.  It's not "time and skill" (because more time will always give you more skill) it's "effort and understanding."

http://www.casualgamedesign.com/?p=27

I would have pointed that out, as well, but I think the whole "time goes backwards and has people impaled on spikes on it" thing kind of destroyed the whole notion that it was trying to make a credible argument.

[Draco18s]

You people fail at learning curves.  It's not "time and skill" (because more time will always give you more skill) it's "effort and understanding."

http://www.casualgamedesign.com/?p=27

I would have pointed that out, as well, but I think the whole "time goes backwards and has people impaled on spikes on it" thing kind of destroyed the whole notion that it was trying to make a credible argument.

There's nothing wrong with the cliff and spikes,* provided that you name your axis properly.

*Except from being ripped from a difficulty graph about EVE.

[Heavenfall]

It requires two different levels of required player skill at the same time. I'd say that's impossible. A game can't be both hard and easy.

Edit: Three, even.