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[mickel]

For decorative purpouses as well as functional (colour coding) it could be interesting to manufacture paint (at a farmer's workshop for example) and then apply that to walls, levers, floors or whatever.

[Dreamer]

That'd be cool, though dye could probably substitute.  They're not exactly the same in many respects, but they're close, right?  There could be some thickening process for the dye to make it less watery.  Or something; that's definately not how they make paint...

Hm...  I'm imagining my jeweler encrusting a masterpierce engraving while some other dwarf (Lying down, because the stupid jeweler is in his way) paints it.  Not far off, a dwarf in a fell mood is decorating an image of an Elephant striking down a Dwarf with dwarf bones and dwarf skin.

Good times...

[ August 10, 2007: Message edited by: Dreamer ]

[Angus the goblin killer.]

If that Paper request get through also it can be used to make paintings at the craftsdwarfs workshop.

However, two stipulations.

1)It takes ages to make (may take over a mounth and the more skilled you are doesn;t affect rate of completion)

2) Some nobels may want paintings in there rooms

Although two good things could be

1)A "Finly crafted" Painting will be worth alot (And a masterpeice painting can be worth more than an artifact)

2) Paintings can make people twice as happy if they view it.

Oh yeh, and paint could also be used for certin artifacts and be used for decoration of objects.

[Dreamer]

I wonder what the damage of an artifact painting would be...

You strike the goblin child in the upper body with the Zulash Logem!
It collapses in a lump of gore!
He is propelled away by the force of the blow!
Goblin Child slams into an obsticle!
It is blown apart!
Goblin Child was slain!

Too bad we can't test that with the Mona Lisa, or something.

At least, not without permission...

[Angus the goblin killer.]

I think it'll be more like this

"The Goblin lunges
Cog Ikkleson gets out the Picaoko
Goblin recoils
Goblin admires brushstrokes
Goblin has headcut off by axedwarf"

[mickel]

To get back on track, there's paint and then there's paint. I don't know how to make paint, but I can imagine making the different kinds takes wildly different methods. There's also painting and painting. Making an oil painting is definitely not the same as giving a rock wall a couple of coats of paint. Somehow I don't really see the dwarves sitting down and painting graceful impressionist oil paintings of billowing flower landscapes, but then again, I didn't quite see dwarves as fanciful wood crafters either.

That being said, I imagine the units for interior decoration on the bigger scale (walls, &c.) would come in units of buckets, where one bucket would last for one square of fortress space for simplicity's sake. And making that slop shouldn't be too hard once you've got a big vat and whatever is needed.

A watercolor rendering of a sunlit forest vale seems more an elf thing to me. Then again, I mustn't be prejudiced.

[Zaratustra]

Paint is composed of a pigment (which we have), a binder (the bit that keeps the pigment together and attached to the wall), and a vehicle or solvent (used for keeping paint liquid and evaporating on placement).

Common medieval techniques were tempera (pigment powder + egg yolk), fresco (pigment powder + water on wet plaster) and later oil-based (pigment + seed oil, often linseed)

Mostly I was thinking of using painting to color code areas of the fortress and making big ugly mosaics.

Optionally, have the ability to inset gems on the walls and floors for extra-rich detail.

[teres_draconis]

When I think "Dwarf paint" I'm not thinking watercolors. I'm thinking furnature and construction. I'm also thinking that paints cover the "natural beauty" of an object.

My in game use: So-and-so likes the color lavender? Paint his room that color. Suddenly his bland boring walls are his favorite color. His room is personalized, giving him some happiness to be there.

On the other hand, I think that painting things should remove the preference bonuses for things that are made with a prefered material (if she likes oak and green, and all of her oak furnature is painted green, it gets the personal value bonus for green, but not oak.) I'm not sure I stated that clearly, but hey, whatever.

As to how it's made... You have powdered color. You have water as a solvent (or better, booze, since irl it evaporates better, and it has it's own colors, too). I think either some of either clay (think white clay), flour or some new mysterious powder for a thickening/opaqueing agent.

I particularly like the idea of some new powder made from grinding stones (stone dust), especially if you consider that first really common paint, whitewash.

wikipedia says : Whitewash, or calcimine, kalsomine, or calsomine is a very low cost type of paint made from slaked lime (calcium hydroxide) and chalk (whiting).

Additives that have been used include water glass, glue, egg white, Portland cement, salt, soap, milk, flour, earth, blood.

Wheat flour has been used as a strength enhancing binder. Salt is usually added to prevent the flour going mouldy later in damp conditions. The use of salt brings its own issues.

Simple lime paints are very low cost. A 25 kg bag of lime makes around 100 kg of paint, and costs around £6 in the UK (2008).

So... a few new mechanics(like the Adams boys don't have enough to do already) and whee, paint! (vastly different than Wii Paint.)

[chucks]

There's a practical reason for paint:  to protect materials from the elements.

You paint metal bridges so they don't rust (as quickly).  You paint wood to seal it from moisture and pests.  You paint bricks to seal them from moisture.  The artistic application of painting came after the practical use, but people have come to (mostly) associate painting things as an artistic pursuit.

If corrosion of metals and materials winds up getting implemented, this could be a very solid application of paint.

Zaratustra is correct about the composition of paints.  Many different mixtures of materials were used for pigmentation, including various plant extracts and mineral powders.

Modern mass-produced paint almost always starts from white paint.  White paint usually comes in two varieties: oil based and latex based.  They both have a mixture of titanium oxide (which is white) and kaolin clay powder (because even though the titanium oxide powder is fairly easy to dredge up and use, it's still not very common).  After a white base is mixed, paint manufacturers add blends of mineral based pigments to make the varies hues and tones and colors from.  Plant based pigments are still in use by artists that mix their own paints, but mass produced paints generally use minerals due to a better long term durability of the colors.

There's TONS more to the subject than that, but that's the basics of it.

[inaluct]

I think it'll be more like this<P>"The Goblin lunges
Cog Ikkleson gets out the Picaoko
Goblin recoils
Goblin admires brushstrokes
Goblin has headcut off by axedwarf"

So, Angus the goblin killer., what's with the period in your name?

[Footkerchief]

You probably shouldn't expect an answer considering he hasn't logged on for at least a year.

[Fossaman]

Chucks' analysis of modern paint is correct; but it's only in the last few decades that it's been that way. Before that, lead was used as the white base for paint. This was stopped for obvious reasons.

Whether or not dwarves should end up using lead based paints is another question.

[Silverionmox]

A potential headache with paints is that sometimes just small quantities of colours are needed. The same goes for mosaics. I'd solve that by keeping track of the quantity of colours in the artist's workshop, and letting him grind pigment/cut mosaic stones out of coloured stones when a colour runs out. Unless we abstract it away, and use one unit of pigment for one wall/painting/object, assuming that it will all even out in the long run.

Another related hurdle: which colour will figuratively painted areas or objects have? I'd say let the player or the dwarf determine foreground and background colour, using up pigments as appropriate. How will we give orders? We could be very specific: paint a green hydra on a red background, or we could be general: paint a hydra, letting the dwarf choose the colours based on what's available and his likings; or we could just specify the colours, letting the dwarf choose the subject; or what should be the default mode: just paint this however you want. A non-figurative paint command is much easier of course.

Regarding their own rooms, let's hope they'll be able to take the initiative some day and decide about interior decoration of their own rooms (buying paint, painting, moving furniture etc). That's not a task for the player, though he can still engrave his nobles' rooms with images of their phobia.

[chucks]

Regarding their own rooms, let's hope they'll be able to take the initiative some day and decide about interior decoration of their own rooms (buying paint, painting, moving furniture etc). That's not a task for the player, though he can still engrave his nobles' rooms with images of their phobia.

If paint and music get implemented, you'll start seeing dwarven children painting their rooms glossy black and hanging death metal rock posters on the walls.  Great, angsty dorfie kids.

GET OFF MY LAWN!

[Sunken]

But we already have them... I just had a child lock himself into his workshop and obsess over making some spiky bracelet or other...