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[plstcflsh]

i recently visited the king tut exhibit currently on show in nyc, and obviously it made me think of DF in many ways.

the most obvious is the tombs, the loot, the artifacts. but what i found much more interesting was the cultural implications king tut had, and how this sort of thing could play out in DF, according to the upcoming sect and guild elements.

i'm not the sharpest historian in the shed so forgive my synopsis- basically, Akhenaten, the pharaoh before tut, made major social changes to the egyptian religion, omitting the many animal gods that were in place in liu of the single sun god. king tut redacted these changed, returning to the many gods.

in future DF terms i see this as each noble backing a different sect, and forcing their own into the greater good. although it might not be fun if they run around knocking the faces off of statues and artifacts.

other than that it was great to see artifacts made of obsidian and granite and pretend they were dwarf made. or alien made.

[Eugenitor]

The Pharaoh before Tut tried to introduce monotheism?! I had no idea. Sorry, Tut, at least you managed to stave it off from Egypt for a while.

And yeah, I don't think we want intra-fortress holy wars in DF. It's like a tantrum spiral, only worse. Players will jump in and start drowning all followers of one or the other faction, to save the fortress from itself.

[Grimlocke]

Sounds fun actualy... In fact I think I heard Today speak of something quite like this during DF talk. Dwarves could form different groups like guilds, social classes and religious groups. Once socials interaction is a bit more fleshed out they could mandate shrines, get into arguments with other groups and even their likeminded groups from different fortresses.

[plstcflsh]

the tantrum spiral would not be fun. but if there were more gradients in the dwarf psyche between happy and tantrumming... yeah the sect & guild thing toady discussed sounded very on target for this.

it could make interesting for multi-raced dwarf fortresses perhaps. "dwarf only mayor," but various immigrants have been lizard people and fish people. and suddenly DF sufferage comes into play.

[Eugenitor]

Sounds fun actualy... In fact I think I heard Today speak of something quite like this during DF talk. Dwarves could form different groups like guilds, social classes and religious groups. Once socials interaction is a bit more fleshed out they could mandate shrines, get into arguments with other groups and even their likeminded groups from different fortresses.

(Note: Chairs are 1 Z-level above rest of diagram)

Code: [Select]

--------CHAIRS--------
|....................|
C.......L............C
H....................H
A..L.......☺.........A
I..............L.....I
R....................R
S.......L............S
|....................|
--------CHAIRS--------

Fish: I'm pretty sure the Genesis mod already provides for different (VERY DIFFERENT) races of dwarf. Racism doesn't seem to be provided for, though; the player just takes the strengths and weaknesses of the various races and puts them in appropriate positions.

[tps12]

Racism doesn't seem to be provided for, though; the player just takes the strengths and weaknesses of the various races and puts them in appropriate positions.

Uh, strengths and weaknesses of various races? Appropriate positions? That IS racism.

[plstcflsh]

well if one is a people of dwarfs and one is a people of goblins, and one is a people of fishmen, it's could be a sort of speciesism. some sort of prejudice value could serve an umbrella function.

[plstcflsh]

And so it's clear, dwarves do have a god. Me.

i imagine a sect of atheist dwarves who choose not believe in "a player."

they also chose to die in any number of unfortunate accidents

[Eugenitor]

Eh. What do I care what they believe? I'm more concerned with what they do. If a dwarf is merrily smelting ore and fighting for the colony, his level of fervor doesn't concern me in the slightest. If, on the other hand, he starts shit with other dwarves, or, worse, stops obeying my commands, he's going to find his bedroom outside. Past the traps. During a goblin siege. Oh, Urist McDeadmeat, how we knew ye. Now the rest of you bearded lackeys quit crying over it and get back to work!

[NW_Kohaku]

It isn't racism to talk about very real and measurable differences between races. 

If one race is tiny, weak, but incredibly fast, and you don't use them for melee because of that, but instead use them as farmers or craftsdwarves because they can grab supplies and do work very quickly, while another race is, say, made of iron and breathes fire, but moves at a glacial pace, and you decide to use them as guards, it isn't displaying any sort of irrational prejudice for or against a particular race, it's paying attention to measurable facts.  If fire-breathing iron-men tend to kill more enemies and die less often than frail little gnomish dwarves, and this can be statistically proven, it wouldn't be racist to say so.

Likewise, in real life, it is not racist to talk about, say, Sickle Cell Anemia, a mutation found in certain African-descended bloodlines, that evolved as a protection against malaria, but has, as a drawback, the whole "anemia" thing working against those who have it.

Wheras it would be racist to use psuedo-science to try and prove white people are smarter than black people by trying to measure cranial cases or the like...

[Cruxador]

in future DF terms i see this as each noble backing a different sect, and forcing their own into the greater good. although it might not be fun if they run around knocking the faces off of statues and artifacts.

For the record, I would love to have iconoclasm in the game. So long as it was relatively infrequent, anyway.

[breadbocks]

The Pharaoh before Tut tried to introduce monotheism?! I had no idea. Sorry, Tut, at least you managed to stave it off from Egypt for a while.

And yeah, I don't think we want intra-fortress holy wars in DF. It's like a tantrum spiral, only worse. Players will jump in and start drowning all followers of one or the other faction, to save the fortress from itself.

On topic, this is what happens when you screw with the status quo. It gets changed back. No monothesim.