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[ChairmanPoo]

The problem of illegal immigration can't be stopped. At least not from a purely domestic POV, I think.

[Zangi]

It cannot be stopped, but the problem can be mitigated enough to 'not be a problem' anymore. 

Enforcement alone, as you see is just working wonders...

[Gorjo MacGrymm]

14th Ammendment specifically adds a requirement to avoid "anchor babies".  It has just been corrupted completely.  The 14th ammendment was specifically written to avoid someone flying/driving/sneaking into america just to give birth and have a US citizen child.  The rider on the ammendment mentions (and i am bastarding/paraphrasing terribly) that the parent must somehow be "under" the authority of the US, ie citizens, immigrants in the military, etc.  Just being here doesnt qualify, based on the original text of the ammendment.  The guys who wrote the ammedment werent that stupid.

When I hear people say (and I used to as well) that immigrants (illegal) are necessary because they do the jobs no one else does is tacitly approving of a sub-class of slave/indentured servants to take care of stuff that is "beneath" them.  I think the labor department needs to force anyone needing a job and collecting unemplyment to take these jobs and refusal is grounds for immediate loss of benefits and or criminal investigation.

Immigration is a wonderful thing if the immigrant wants to join his/her adoptive country.  The fact that jobs are available is a direct result of the policies of the new country and the immigrant should pay his/her new adoptive land respect (and taxes i guess ).

[Zangi]

Hey, if you work with fake ID/SS... you pay taxes you know.

Some of them do want to join, but seeing as we have double standards and a very limited 'become a resident' pool...   You have people unwilling to wait years to get in legally. 
Others who can't get in because they have no family anchor over on this side... or they have some sort of minor drug related offense from 10-20 years ago.


I'm all for forcing the unemployed Americans to working in the farms and dredges of America.  As long as they don't expect to be paid more then minimum wage for hard manual labor...

[Creamcorn]

If you're going to use Real Lives 2010 as a source, edit your post to be blank right now.

Well! How dare you sir! If I weren't such a tolerable person I would take my business else where! My mother and father are both illegal emigrants. As are most of my aunts and uncles.

Oh, about three or four condoms of cocaine up their ass, why do you ask?

Close! But most of the time that's held only for people who frequent border crossings, not one time trips!

The real answer(s)!
-Hike hundreds of miles to the border of the U.S. and Mexico! Bonus hiking points if you're in the deeper parts of Central American countries! And bonus border crossing points if you make it across the various borders of other countries! When I say hike, I use the term VERY VERY loosely!

-Brave various amounts of semi-corrupt institutions and occasional bouts with hooligans; I'm talking about gangs! And yes, they will steal from/ and or rape you! Bonus points if they're apart of the ever expanding Mara Salvatrucha (MS-13) gang!

-And remember, once you're in Mexico, it's actually a hundred times more dangerous to be an illegal migrant there! So make sure you get your ass to the Rio Grande or to a Coyote (a term my Mother uses for a person who sneaks people pass the border) ASAP! Seriously, Mexican jails suck harder than a Blow fish to a vacuum cleaner!

-I hope you like hiking, if not, then this next part is going to suck big time! I hope you realize that the only "safe" place to take to get the U.S. border is a huge fucking desert!

-And now you're at the Rio Grande. I seriously hope you weren't a retard who choose a much deeper part of the river to cross! Now, did you bring your garbage bag? If so, strip and put all of your things in there! Now cross motherfucker! CROSS! Watch out for the border patrol too!

-You're not out of the woods desert yet! Now you have to contend with various amounts of minute men and don't think for a second that they are not armed! Because they are! Luckily for you, most of them aren't fucking crazy as they sound!

-One last thing now! I hope you have someone to contact on the inside of U.S., if not, then... wow are you screwed! You may as well bring yourself to an I.C.E representative with a sign around you saying FAIL!

Seriously guys, that's more or less what someone has to do live in this country now a days! My mom sure had it lucky though! She still had to deal with most of this shit, but minus the gangs, minute men, ice and Mexican government! (She's Mexican and a U.S. citizen!)

[ChairmanPoo]

It cannot be stopped, but the problem can be mitigated enough to 'not be a problem' anymore. 

Enforcement alone, as you see is just working wonders...

Doubtful. Believe what you will, though.

[Aqizzar]

The very real and true fact that illegal immigration has been declining over the past five years would suggest so.

Of course, that had a lot more to do with the economy tanking so there's no jobs to immigrate for.  Whaddaya know, the Republicans did solve the immigration problem!  [/sick burn]

[lumin]

As Gorjo stated, the 14th Amendment already disallows children to automatically become US citizens if their parents are not:

All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside.

I'm not sure why people, especially many Republicans are asking for an amendment, when this is already the case.  The original intent of the 14th was for African Slaves and Native American Indians to become citizens, of which those people fell into the law or jurisdiction of the state.  Illegal immigrant adults do not fall into the jurisdiction of the United States because they are not recognized as citizens, have no recognized business or invitation.  Consider the situation reversed:  If I took a vacation with my wife to Puerto Viarta on a Cruise, while she was pregnant, and she happened to go into labor there, would my child automatically become a Mexican?  The idea is simply absurd.

Am I saying that we should round up all these children, along with their parents and throw them in a truck and ship them back to Mexico?  Of course not, and unlike the straw man that most Democrats like to create, the vast majority of Conservatives do not want to see this kind of cruelty.  We're simply asking for people to be reasonable here. 

I'm a home grown American, but I spent 24 months walking the streets and speaking the language as a Christian Missionary in Peru when I was 19-21, about 10 years ago.  I saw many poor people who would do just about anything to get to the USA, even marry off their daughter to an American to gain citizenship.  However, most of these people never had a chance to do this the legal way because of the strict immigration requirements.  My question, then, is: Is it just to simply grant citizenship and all the privileges associated with it to just anyone who walks through our border, simply because they were fortunate enough to have lived next door, while at the same time denying it from someone who wants to come in to the country the right way? 

I would prefer that "legal" immigration requirements be greatly loosened, but that illegal immigration be curbed or at least reduced considerably first.  I loved the people I associated myself with in Peru and felt bad that they didn't have the chance to be here the right way, unlike many of those who come here south of the border. 

If this is a matter of being fair, humane and just to all men, then I would wager that allowing people to come here illegally, forcing them to hide in the shadows, be relegated to the "refuse" jobs of our society, and get paid dirt wages by sly business-men is FAR more inhumane than giving a chance for people to come here the right way and to feel equal to the rest of us.  So let's cut the crap and the straw man argument.  I want America to have as many immigrants as we can possibly get, but let's not force them into cleaning our hotel rooms, cleaning our toilets, and living off the tax-payer dime in the shadows.  Let's give them full, legal citizenship with a real chance of success, but let's do it the right way.

[Phmcw]

I just LOVE both Nikov and lumin's posts.

For Nikov first, you just have xenophobia at his best : of course, illegal immigrant are drug dealers.

For lumin you have the whole hypocrisy of trying pretending that refusing the American nationality to children that always lived in the states is a way to help them.

AND for both, the total irony of being the descendant of migrant that stole the land of native American, back in the time when genocide was a perfectly acceptable course of action.

And that pretty much sum up this proposition : Xenophobia, hypocrisy, and forgetfulness of history.

Edit : got a bit carried away there

[Josephus]

Nikov said nothing about drug dealers. He mentioned condoms of cocaine. Drug dealers don't do that; they get their mules to do it. In this case, the illegal immigrants are victims of criminal behavior. At least get what you're attacking correct.

And I'm convinced you didn't even read lumin's post. I see no hypocrisy there.

AND for both, the total irony of being the descendant of migrant that stole the land of native American, back in the time when genocide was a perfectly acceptable course of action.

I don't even know what you're saying with this post. But America shafted my people over in various ways. Am I pissed about that? Should I be? How do you even know they're descendants of migrants? Assuming that everyone on the goddamn internet is a white man?

[Aqizzar]

If this is a matter of being fair, humane and just to all men, then I would wager that allowing people to come here illegally, forcing them to hide in the shadows, be relegated to the "refuse" jobs of our society, and get paid dirt wages by sly business-men is FAR more inhumane than giving a chance for people to come here the right way and to feel equal to the rest of us.  So let's cut the crap and the straw man argument.  I want America to have as many immigrants as we can possibly get, but let's not force them into cleaning our hotel rooms, cleaning our toilets, and living off the tax-payer dime in the shadows.  Let's give them full, legal citizenship with a real chance of success, but let's do it the right way.

Well I'll be damned.  The professional raconteur has a serious side.  Well, your compassion is admirable, but you're not really providing any definition of what "the right way" to do things is.  Which is a pretty much universal failing of arguments over this issue.  Everyone seems to think there's some good solution floating out in the ether that everyone else can recognize, but nobody ever bothers to put it into words.  The rare times anyone tries, it becomes more obvious unworkable with every added detail.

[Gorjo MacGrymm]

Question:

Would we be as worried about illegal immigation on the southern border if there was a large area of happy business/farmers/ranchers on the Mexico side instead of armed quasi-military murderous drug cartels?  I believe the cartels are the real threat.  The fear that they are going to export their culture of violence across the borders IMO the true threat.  Anyone who has been paying attention to Laredo/Neuvo Laredo knows what I mean.  Mexico has lost complete control of the northern half of its land.

Also, perhaps the drop in supposed illegal immigration is because of the drop in the economy, so I guess the Democrats/Eugenicists got their way by forcing a banking/housing collapse  /sick-burn:cloward-piven (sorry Aquizzar - couldnt resist )

Well I'll be damned.  The professional raconteur has a serious side.  Well, your compassion is admirable, but you're not really providing any definition of what "the right way" to do things is.  Which is a pretty much universal failing of arguments over this issue.  Everyone seems to think there's some good solution floating out in the ether that everyone else can recognize, but nobody ever bothers to put it into words.  The rare times anyone tries, it becomes more obvious unworkable with every added detail.

sigh, tooooo true

[Nikov]

I just LOVE both Nikov and lumin's posts.

For Nikov first, you just have xenophobia at his best : of course, illegal immigrant are drug dealers.

For lumin you have the whole hypocrisy of trying pretending that refusing the American nationality to children that always lived in the states is a way to help them.

AND for both, the total irony of being the descendant of migrant that stole the land of native American, back in the time when genocide was a perfectly acceptable course of action.

And that pretty much sum up this proposition : Xenophobia, hypocrisy, and forgetfulness of history.

Edit : got a bit carried away there

I'm not forgetful of history, you're ignorant to my history.

My ancestors didn't immigrate to the United States. Don't be an overgeneralizing idiot. And I'm not saying smuggling coke is the only way in, but someone wanted to know what it cost, and I gave a perfectly valid answer you can only refute by insulting my character with these 'xenophobe' allegations. What you don't understand is I have the magnificent privilage of being able to tell nearly anyone they are less American than me, because my earliest ancestor on the continent arrived after the Civil War.

The English Civil War.

So get the fuck out of my country, or at least off the computer network created by and for our glorious Department of Defense (All Glory to DARPA).

[Gorjo MacGrymm]

Cant help myself:

Ya'know, the "american" Indians immigrated here too (potential shit storm in 5...4...3...2...1...) and set about slaughtering each other the entire way vying for land..................(*seeks cover)

[MetalSlimeHunt]

So? People wage war. It's what we do.