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Author Topic: 14th Amendment Shenanigans  (Read 8318 times)

Aqizzar

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Re: 14th Amendment Shenanigans
« Reply #75 on: August 04, 2010, 08:26:47 pm »

Am I the only one who thinks it isn't that bad of an idea to make it necessary for your parents to be citizens, rather than the hypothetical day trip delivery in order to latch onto the benefits of being an american?

It's not a bad idea if you have a sound alternative.  Germany, the modern Germany that is, has a huge population of Turkish-descended people, whose parents went to Germany on work-visas but were never given citizenship, creating an entire class of people who are citizens of no nation.  I'd rather not see that in America, compared to the present alternative of autocitizenship for people that happen to be born here.
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Renault

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Re: 14th Amendment Shenanigans
« Reply #76 on: August 04, 2010, 08:34:09 pm »

Am I the only one who thinks it isn't that bad of an idea to make it necessary for your parents to be citizens, rather than the hypothetical day trip delivery in order to latch onto the benefits of being an american?

Apparently, yeah. Though you realize thats not what this bill is about, right? That sort of thing isn't really common. Mainly it'd be used to deport entire families of hispanics who entered illegally, since if they have kids it looks reeeeeaaallly bad when they split the family up.
Either way, its pretty damn cruel. If a kid is born here, its sort of harsh to kick him out. Its his home, ya know?
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sonerohi

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Re: 14th Amendment Shenanigans
« Reply #77 on: August 04, 2010, 08:53:29 pm »

The situation needs cracked down on in some way. The problem is that all we got is a hammer, so every issue looks like a nail. We need to get Sweden in here, because even if they only bring one other tool, it'll open up so many possibilities for IKEA furniture.
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Darkone

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Re: 14th Amendment Shenanigans
« Reply #78 on: August 04, 2010, 09:00:06 pm »

The "Situation" is fine.

Quote
1. Less than 12 million illegals total accumulated over time in a nation of almost 310 million people is not a cause for hysteria. (According to recent estimates by DHS based on data from the Census Bureau’s American Community Survey and other sources, the unauthorized resident alien population totaled 11.6 million in January 2008 and 10.8 million in January 2009. Using data from the March Current Population Survey and other sources, the Pew Hispanic Center has estimated the unauthorized resident population at 11.9 million for March 2008.5 In the case of both DHS and the Pew
Hispanic Center, the 2008 and 2009 estimates are less than the corresponding estimates for 2007(11.8 million by DHS and 12.4 million by Pew). link (26p pdf)) (Note: the numbers are decreasing each year! This because of both fewer illegal immigrants coming and an increase in the number returning home -- in part due to increased enforcement of immigration laws!.) Also, of the nearly 12 million illegal aliens estimated to be living in the U.S. about two million are children who entered the country at a young age with their parents. None of them made an independent decision to break the law; they speak English, and have grown up in this country.

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sonerohi

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Re: 14th Amendment Shenanigans
« Reply #79 on: August 04, 2010, 09:17:17 pm »

For a great many people, those numbers are not fine at all. Also, note that the number is decreasing because more people are being deported, hence we are already cracking down anyways. It is just that, again, many people feel that it is not enough, especially with the cartels being wackier than usual (What is up with that by the way? Power void or something?).
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Josephus

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Re: 14th Amendment Shenanigans
« Reply #80 on: August 04, 2010, 09:19:37 pm »

They're in the middle of a hideous power struggle, yes.
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Renault

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Re: 14th Amendment Shenanigans
« Reply #81 on: August 04, 2010, 09:22:34 pm »

For a great many people, those numbers are not fine at all. Also, note that the number is decreasing because more people are being deported, hence we are already cracking down anyways. It is just that, again, many people feel that it is not enough, especially with the cartels being wackier than usual (What is up with that by the way? Power void or something?).

You don't follow the news much, do you? Mexico has been waging a bloody war on the cartels for years now.
Regardless, whatever your stance on illegal immigrants in general, I think denying kids citizenship is pretty low. They didn't choose to break any laws, so why should they be treated like they did? They're as responsible for their birth as you were for yours and had as much control over their parents citizenship.
Hell, I wouldn't have been a citizen if that were in place when I was born, my birthparents being French immigrants.
>.> Maybe that makes me impartial on this issue, though.
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Onlyhestands

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Re: 14th Amendment Shenanigans
« Reply #82 on: August 04, 2010, 09:58:55 pm »

Honestly, and I know that this is very anecdotal, but most illegal immigrants that I have met tend to actually be very hard, dedicated workers, often more-so than natives. My feeling is that it should be easier for people to legally immigrate into the U.S.
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tehstefan

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Re: 14th Amendment Shenanigans
« Reply #83 on: August 05, 2010, 12:01:56 am »

I'm not exactly sure if easier is the way I would put it. Its good to vet people, and make sure your not letting in people who might be of dubious worth, or dangerous, but the process is just too esoteric. In my opinion, it simply needs to be simplified, so its simpler to work though, though the standards shouldn't decrease.

It's not like we haven't done it before, think Ellis Island and the like. It used to be a whole lot simpler to come into the country.

In any case, yeah, Thankfully I'm not worried about this much, because amending the constitution, well...that's really hard to do. 3/4th of the states, thats a lot of states to have ratify. your looking at about 38 states. If even 13 say no, it doesn't go. Not an easy step to make. Not to mention the fact that you need 2/3rds majority.
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I suspect you've never tried doing many illegal things yet in your game. The second the CCS knows you're "active", they'll come down on you like the hammer of God.

Renault

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Re: 14th Amendment Shenanigans
« Reply #84 on: August 05, 2010, 12:06:11 am »

make sure your not letting in people who might be of dubious worth

Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.

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Josephus

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Re: 14th Amendment Shenanigans
« Reply #85 on: August 05, 2010, 12:15:15 am »

Not letting in people of "dubious worth"?

Then you may as well kick out all the "legal" residents of "dubious worth" as well.
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i had the elves bring me two tigermen, although i forgot to let them out of the cage and they died : ( i was sad : (

tehstefan

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Re: 14th Amendment Shenanigans
« Reply #86 on: August 05, 2010, 12:16:08 am »

Yeah, paint me cynical, but while I am all for that, I don't tend to like criminals moving in here to escape the law. People used to do it, so, that's basically what I mean by it.
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I suspect you've never tried doing many illegal things yet in your game. The second the CCS knows you're "active", they'll come down on you like the hammer of God.

Euld

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Re: 14th Amendment Shenanigans
« Reply #87 on: August 05, 2010, 12:41:48 am »

I'm very late to the party, but here's my side.

I was born in New Mexico, to an air force family.  My first language was spanish, my first word was even ola, although I've forgotten all the spanish I knew.  Two years later, Dad was transferred to Spain, so my family spent the next eight years in Europe.  First Spain, then Germany.  After that, lived in the US up until now.  But weirdly enough, pretty sure if I ran for president, there would be no question about my citizenship.  I should also note that I'm from English, Scottish, Irish descent, as about as white as it's humanly possible to be.  My English side comes from the pilgrims who came on the Mayflower, from William Bradford no less.  Scottish and Irish parts (as best as I can figure out) came from subsequent immigrants many, many years later.  So essentially, my English part comes from the first "illegal immigrants," while the other parts come from later legal immigrants who were hated for being who they were.

I say we keep the "if you're born here, you're a citizen" law.  If very pregnant mothers are willing to make the trip to ensure a better life for their future child and family, let them go.

Sergius

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Re: 14th Amendment Shenanigans
« Reply #88 on: August 05, 2010, 01:02:24 am »

Honestly, and I know that this is very anecdotal, but most illegal immigrants that I have met tend to actually be very hard, dedicated workers, often more-so than natives. My feeling is that it should be easier for people to legally immigrate into the U.S.

What? You mean that the Ramos Martinez paintings of the Mexicans with Sombreros don't mean that all mexicans love to take naps all day? A lot of white old men will disagree!

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Grakelin

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Re: 14th Amendment Shenanigans
« Reply #89 on: August 05, 2010, 01:11:28 am »

Guys, when this law gets passed, we don't want you coming to Canada to dodge the Citizenship Attainment Fee you'll all have to pay when you realize the only reason you're a Citizen of the USA is because YOU were born there.
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