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Author Topic: Solar plasma storm to destroy earth!  (Read 6807 times)

Solifuge

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Re: Solar plasma storm to destroy earth!
« Reply #15 on: August 03, 2010, 12:15:22 pm »

<rant>

December 12, 2012 merely marks the Precession of the Earth, which is a very long and fancy way of saying the Earth slowly wobbles as it spins, like a gyroscope. The Long-Count Calendar was an invention of the Olmec, who were darned fine astronomers, artists, and mathematicians, on par with the late Greeks. When their civilization ended, and after a Mesoamerican Dark Age, the subsequent civilizations of the area continued to use the calendar, but didn't have the astronomical know-how to know what the Long-Count was all about. Hence all that business with Xibalba, the road to the underworld, human sacrifice, and all sorts of mystical crap. They were basically trying to emulate their predecessors, without knowing what the heck they were doing things for.

These days, we know about and can measure the Precession of the Earth again. The cycle can be a good thing to know, since it's thought to have a subtle effect on the global climate, and Sun-Earth interaction (solar flares?). The Precession theory of climate change suggests that Global Warming and the Ice Age are influences of the current tilt of the Earth; according to it, we're nearing a small peak in Warmth, and over the next 20,000 years or so will be slowly cooling off until we hit another cold peak.

That's about as much Science as we can get out of the Long Count Calendar, without having the historical records of the Olmec. It's a pity that Cortez destroyed them... since we now know very little of an advanced classical civilization, aside from what we can derive from art records, modern science, and history tinted by later mythology.

</rant>
« Last Edit: August 03, 2010, 12:16:59 pm by Solifuge »
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RedKing

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Re: Solar plasma storm to destroy earth!
« Reply #16 on: August 03, 2010, 12:33:45 pm »

Maybe. There's dispute as to whether it was the Olmecs or a later group.

In any case, yeah...most of the later civilizations just copied the architecture and mythology of earlier civs without fully understanding it. Case in point: a few prominent sites like Tula and Teotihuacan are laid out in suc a way as to align with processions of Sirius and Venus. Lots of other, later sites in Mexico are built with the exact same positioning---which means they don't line up with anything because they're in a different place. They just copied the layout and orientation of older cities without understanding the archaeoastronomy at work.

I spent four months in undergrad trying to find some archaeoastronomical pattern to sites in west Mexico, and didn't find jack. I think that was probably what killed any interest in actually doing something with my archaeology degree.  :-\
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Il Palazzo

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Re: Solar plasma storm to destroy earth!
« Reply #17 on: August 03, 2010, 12:39:43 pm »

These days, we know about and can measure the Precession of the Earth again. The cycle can be a good thing to know, since it's thought to have a subtle effect on the global climate, and Sun-Earth interaction (solar flares?). The Precession theory of climate change suggests that Global Warming and the Ice Age are influences of the current tilt of the Earth; according to it, we're nearing a small peak in Warmth, and over the next 20,000 years or so will be slowly cooling off until we hit another cold peak.
Lololololol bad science lolol.
It never gets old.

Solifuge, get me some links or logical explanation of that theory of yours or I'll call it bulshit again.
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smjjames

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Re: Solar plasma storm to destroy earth!
« Reply #18 on: August 03, 2010, 12:55:48 pm »

Several news reports are saying that there was a massive solar flare recently which will bring the Auroras down, much closer to the equator. Go stargazing, folks! Hope for clear weather.

Nevermind, it's only going down to the northern US or thereabouts. And since most of canada is basically the north pole anyway, nobody's going to notice. *awaits vengeful crowd of hokey-playing luberjacks.*

Linkage?

Anyways, if true, then that would be an awesome sight.

Unfortunately its been cloudy lately in San Diego and the fog rolls in in the evening.
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C4lv1n

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Re: Solar plasma storm to destroy earth!
« Reply #19 on: August 03, 2010, 01:20:06 pm »

And since most of canada is basically the north pole anyway, nobody's going to notice. *awaits vengeful crowd of hokey-playing luberjacks.*

RAEG!

Though you're not far off...
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Cecilff2

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Re: Solar plasma storm to destroy earth!
« Reply #20 on: August 03, 2010, 02:46:03 pm »

These days, we know about and can measure the Precession of the Earth again. The cycle can be a good thing to know, since it's thought to have a subtle effect on the global climate, and Sun-Earth interaction (solar flares?). The Precession theory of climate change suggests that Global Warming and the Ice Age are influences of the current tilt of the Earth; according to it, we're nearing a small peak in Warmth, and over the next 20,000 years or so will be slowly cooling off until we hit another cold peak.
Lololololol bad science lolol.
It never gets old.

Solifuge, get me some links or logical explanation of that theory of yours or I'll call it bulshit again.

He's trying to talk about the Milankovitch Cycle, but he's not going about it very well.  Solar flares have nothing to do with it whatsoever.
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Fossaman

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Re: Solar plasma storm to destroy earth!
« Reply #21 on: August 03, 2010, 03:18:59 pm »

One of the more convincing end-of-the-world-as-we-know-it television programs I've seen was speculating about a solar flare frying all the transformers on the electrical grid, or some such. Apparently there's very little industrial capacity dedicated to building them, so if they all went poof at once we wouldn't be able to replace them.

Anywho, I hope I get to see some aurora. I'm at 46 degrees North, so hopefully there will be some pretty lights.
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smjjames

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Re: Solar plasma storm to destroy earth!
« Reply #22 on: August 03, 2010, 03:26:19 pm »

One of the more convincing end-of-the-world-as-we-know-it television programs I've seen was speculating about a solar flare frying all the transformers on the electrical grid, or some such. Apparently there's very little industrial capacity dedicated to building them, so if they all went poof at once we wouldn't be able to replace them.

Anywho, I hope I get to see some aurora. I'm at 46 degrees North, so hopefully there will be some pretty lights.

Again, can someone post a link to whether PTTG is telling the truth.

As for the end of the world thing, yea the solar flare thing is at least one of the most plausible, especially considering the power of those solar flares or coronal mass ejections.
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Criptfeind

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Re: Solar plasma storm to destroy earth!
« Reply #23 on: August 03, 2010, 03:32:20 pm »

We are literally in more danger from lightning wizards than we are from December 12, 2012.

I love to see the word literally used literally on occasion. Thank you.

It is true, we can totally call down lighting with lasers nowadays, it is deep dark magic.
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Solifuge

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Re: Solar plasma storm to destroy earth!
« Reply #24 on: August 03, 2010, 04:20:57 pm »

These days, we know about and can measure the Precession of the Earth again. The cycle can be a good thing to know, since it's thought to have a subtle effect on the global climate, and Sun-Earth interaction (solar flares?). The Precession theory of climate change suggests that Global Warming and the Ice Age are influences of the current tilt of the Earth; according to it, we're nearing a small peak in Warmth, and over the next 20,000 years or so will be slowly cooling off until we hit another cold peak.
Lololololol bad science lolol.
It never gets old.

Solifuge, get me some links or logical explanation of that theory of yours or I'll call it bulshit again.

I might not have arranged things very legibly there. Still, I'm a bit confused; have you claimed that something I've said was "bullshit" before? Either way, I'll try to illustrate things more approachably, and with enough links to sate anyone's curiosity.

0) Solar Events and Earth:
Solar Events themselves have nothing to do with Earth, but how they affect us is defined by our relative position and orientation to the Sun. Thus, as with all things astronomical, knowledge of Precession would help us predict the effects of the Sun on the Earth, but is only tangentially related to predicting how Earth would recieve Solar Activity; IE the fact that it would only be visible in certain hemispheres, etc.
In summary, I think in tangents.

1) A Brief Description of Precession:
A ~26,000 year cycle by which the gravitational influence of the moon and sun creates a regular "wobble" in the Earth, as it moves through the solar system, and around the Galactic Central Point. More information about Precession Here and Here.

2) Precession and Climate Change:
The theory regarding Precession and climate change is attributed to the mathematician Milutin Milanković, and an overview can be found here. It's not "my theory," but merely one I found interesting and thought to share.

3) The Olmec and the Long Count Calendar:
The oldest image we have of a Long Count calendar date, from approximately 36 BCE, was found at Chiapia del Corzo. This would place the creation of this record during the declining years of the Olmec civilization. The calendar itself was obviously created before this time, since the date referenced it, and thus may have predated the Olmec, though we have no evidence to suggest that any civilizations predated the Olmec in the region. If you're interested in Olmec history, and are old-fashioned, you could pick up a textbook on the subject.

4) Precession of the Equinoxes and the Long Count Calendar:
The Mesoamerican Calendar measures a series of astronomical cycles. Like ours, it measures the Solar Cycle (One Earth-Orbit around the sun; measures Years), and the Lunar Cycle (One Moon-Orbit around the Earth; measures Months). There are also Calendar Rounds, which represent every time the state of astronomical objects was the same, which occurs after a certain number of years. For instance, one of these Calendar Rounds defined a Year worth of Years. Another was likely used to measure extremely long periods of time, represented as 1/5 of the Precessional cycle. Further info on the Long Count Calendar, and the Mesoamerican numerical system, can be found here.

Anthropologically speaking, it was likely observed using architectural and astronomical reference points, and observing how the location from which the sun rose during the Summer Solstice shifted slightly each year. They marked the start of the Precessional cycle as the time when the Sun in the sky would have been seen lined up with the band of the Milky Way, which had important religious symbolism for Mesoamericans. They saw the Milky Way as the "umbilical cord" of the world, which connected the relm of spirits/afterlife to the World. The important thing is that this date correlates with when they believed the world was created. One Calendar Round from that Long Count date equates to roughly 5,125 years. After 5 of these Calendar Rounds, 1 Precessional Cycle will have passed, and the Sun will line up with the Milky Way in the sky again.

Basically, the 2012 date signifies 1/5 of a Precessional Cycle. That is all.
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Criptfeind

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Re: Solar plasma storm to destroy earth!
« Reply #25 on: August 03, 2010, 04:24:37 pm »

tl;dr

2012 is 1/5 of the way to killing us all.
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Il Palazzo

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Re: Solar plasma storm to destroy earth!
« Reply #26 on: August 03, 2010, 04:46:00 pm »

I might not have arranged things very legibly there. Still, I'm a bit confused; have you claimed that something I've said was "bullshit" before? Either way, I'll try to illustrate things more approachably, and with enough links to sate anyone's curiosity.
Well, me saying "lololol bad science lolol" was in my mind equal to saying "bullshit" for the first time.
Milankovitch's cycle is all nice and well, what I was, eh, let's say "attacking", was your description of the correlation, which was rather shabby.
Anyway, it's nice to have things straightened out. Carry on.
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Mephansteras

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Re: Solar plasma storm to destroy earth!
« Reply #27 on: August 03, 2010, 04:50:32 pm »

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Criptfeind

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Re: Solar plasma storm to destroy earth!
« Reply #28 on: August 03, 2010, 05:26:58 pm »

Yes the killer flare will come in 20502 years.
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MetalSlimeHunt

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Re: Solar plasma storm to destroy earth!
« Reply #29 on: August 03, 2010, 05:31:47 pm »

If humans still exist in 22512, I am fairly confident we could just destroy our sun and make a new one if we had a problem with it.
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