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Author Topic: Supernatural Mafia - Round 2 - Game over!  (Read 71396 times)

Jokerman-EXE

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Re: Supernatural Mafia - Round 2 - Day 2 hates 3rd parties
« Reply #165 on: August 04, 2010, 01:48:33 pm »

Oh my, I thought I was.

You misinterpreted what I was saying. I was saying that it was possible that two of you three could have been scum. It was sort of an idea I was entertaining, though it didn't really pan out.

As to my vote, I'd say Irony Owl. Wrong answer, man. Only scum tries to prove that they're Town. Town has better things to do - like hunt for scum. It's been said but if you're Town it will prove itself in time.
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Mr.Person

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Re: Supernatural Mafia - Round 2 - Day 2 hates 3rd parties
« Reply #166 on: August 04, 2010, 01:59:20 pm »

Actually, lemme rephrase that. What makes you think IronyOwl is bussing?
He spent about a whole page (15 replies) back and forthing with Janus.

Oh... ok, now I understand. I was talking about Org, one of the confirmed scum. You're basing your attacks off of your suspicion of Janus. This, my friend, is a logical fallacy since you're basing your argument on something you have yet to prove. Prove Janus is scum first and THEN move on to your other attacks or attack people in a way that doesn't involve Janus being scum.

Oh my, I thought I was.

You misinterpreted what I was saying. I was saying that it was possible that two of you three could have been scum. It was sort of an idea I was entertaining, though it didn't really pan out.

As to my vote, I'd say Irony Owl. Wrong answer, man. Only scum tries to prove that they're Town. Town has better things to do - like hunt for scum. It's been said but if you're Town it will prove itself in time.

How does IronyOwl saying that townies should prove themselves townie prove that IronyOwl is scum? ASAIK, IronyOwl would of said that town or scum, so the validity of the statement does nothing to prove scummitude.
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Hmm...I've never been a big fan of CCGs - I mean, I did and still do collect Pokemon cards, but I never got heavily into the battling and trading thing.

By definition that makes you a fan since you still buy them.

ToonyMan

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Re: Supernatural Mafia - Round 2 - Day 2 hates 3rd parties
« Reply #167 on: August 04, 2010, 02:01:46 pm »

How is that a fallacious statement?  I don't understand.  Is there a term for that.
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Mr.Person

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Re: Supernatural Mafia - Round 2 - Day 2 hates 3rd parties
« Reply #168 on: August 04, 2010, 02:03:46 pm »

How is that a fallacious statement?  I don't understand.  Is there a term for that.

Your evidence that IronyOwl is scum is that he's bussing Janus, correct? Well, if so, then it's fallacious since Janus's alignment isn't proven, so how can you base an argument off of something not yet proven?
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Hmm...I've never been a big fan of CCGs - I mean, I did and still do collect Pokemon cards, but I never got heavily into the battling and trading thing.

By definition that makes you a fan since you still buy them.

ToonyMan

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Re: Supernatural Mafia - Round 2 - Day 2 hates 3rd parties
« Reply #169 on: August 04, 2010, 02:07:16 pm »

How is that a fallacious statement?  I don't understand.  Is there a term for that.

Your evidence that IronyOwl is scum is that he's bussing Janus, correct? Well, if so, then it's fallacious since Janus's alignment isn't proven, so how can you base an argument off of something not yet proven?
If Janus was proven scum he would be lynched right away, but he isn't.  You can't be saying that Mr.Person.
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Mr.Person

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Re: Supernatural Mafia - Round 2 - Day 2 hates 3rd parties
« Reply #170 on: August 04, 2010, 03:11:47 pm »

No, I'm saying that you have to prove Janus is scum.
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Hmm...I've never been a big fan of CCGs - I mean, I did and still do collect Pokemon cards, but I never got heavily into the battling and trading thing.

By definition that makes you a fan since you still buy them.

JanusTwoface

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Re: Supernatural Mafia - Round 2 - Day 2 hates 3rd parties
« Reply #171 on: August 04, 2010, 04:24:50 pm »

Oh my, I thought I was.

You misinterpreted what I was saying. I was saying that it was possible that two of you three could have been scum. It was sort of an idea I was entertaining, though it didn't really pan out.

You thought you were what?

On the second part, if that's true, it's still an rather unusual strategy but makes a lot more sense than better on all three being scum.



For reference, the whole argument between ToonyMan and Mr.Person is confusing me... :-\
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Mr.Person

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Re: Supernatural Mafia - Round 2 - Day 2 hates 3rd parties
« Reply #172 on: August 04, 2010, 04:56:42 pm »

It confused (confuses) me too, actually.
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Hmm...I've never been a big fan of CCGs - I mean, I did and still do collect Pokemon cards, but I never got heavily into the battling and trading thing.

By definition that makes you a fan since you still buy them.

IronyOwl

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Re: Supernatural Mafia - Round 2 - Day 2 hates 3rd parties
« Reply #173 on: August 04, 2010, 05:06:43 pm »

IronyOwl:  The only way we should be proving we're town is by negation- when we find out all the scum and put a noose on them, then everyone else proven town.  Remember, if you're a dead townie when all the scum die, you still win.
It's best if you don't tank for scum; hence, being known as town is more useful than not being known as town. That's mainly why we bother to explain why we did something and how it's useful to the town, rather than just shrugging and saying "Meh, your loss if you lynch me."

If you're talking about intentionally doing or not doing things to appear more townish, then yes, that's counterproductive.


As to my vote, I'd say Irony Owl. Wrong answer, man. Only scum tries to prove that they're Town. Town has better things to do - like hunt for scum. It's been said but if you're Town it will prove itself in time.
Then do so. Attacking me is a good start, but it's still a bandwagon copy of what someone else said. As long as we're here, do you see any irony in putting a vote on me for saying something you feel town shouldn't say, when that something is that town should look like town? If so, which direction does this irony swing? Do you feel I'm incompetent town, grossly incompetent scum, scum attempting to hide in audacity, or something else?


For reference, the whole argument between ToonyMan and Mr.Person is confusing me... :-\
It's definitely one of those arguments that's not going anywhere quickly. It should resolve itself in whatever manner it should have long ago, or reveal itself to be a colossal waste of time, pretty soon now.


Archangel, who do you think is scum and why?

Eduren, what's the scummiest or otherwise most suspicious actions you've seen thus far, and why? Are those responsible also who you feel are most likely scum, or is there a difference between the record holder and who's in the lead?


Org said that, so I said that, so you said that, so I dared you to explain it, so you said that. At best, you're trying to use circular logic - IronyOwl is scum because he was rolefishing Org, which you know because he asked Org to explain himself, which scum would only do if he thought he could get his role out of it, which is how you know IronyOwl is scum. At worst, this is taking the hold your ground plan to sad new depths, by fairly literally trying to claim I said what you said instead of you.
Admitting the incongruity of this bit of your attack on Org would have been enough to satisfy my queries yesterday.  Little late now, but ok.
I have absolutely no idea what incongruity I admitted to. You'll have to explain that rather carefully.
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Jokerman-EXE

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Re: Supernatural Mafia - Round 2 - Day 2 hates 3rd parties
« Reply #174 on: August 04, 2010, 05:25:02 pm »

Janus: I thought I was voting.

And unusual is sort of how I think.

Irony Owl: I apologize for any ambiguity. The intent behind that was for you to start talking. The unasked questions that make up the attack were:

What is your reasoning behind that statement? Noobishness? What?

Do you have some kind of counterstatement? A defense of what I've claimed?

And to answer your question, I believe that you're scum hiding in audacity. Rhetorically speaking, if someone offers you an option the way you just did to me, the third option is the right one. I'm willing to overlook that provided you give me some damn good reasons as to why you aren't as scummy as you're appearing.
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IronyOwl

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Re: Supernatural Mafia - Round 2 - Day 2 hates 3rd parties
« Reply #175 on: August 04, 2010, 05:42:22 pm »

What is your reasoning behind that statement? Noobishness? What?
I feel it to be accurate. Do you have an explanation as to how it is not accurate?

Do you have some kind of counterstatement? A defense of what I've claimed?
My response to Toaster, unless you're talking about a different statement. As far as I can see all you've claimed is that "only scum tries to prove they're town," which I've explained to be false.

And to answer your question, I believe that you're scum hiding in audacity. Rhetorically speaking, if someone offers you an option the way you just did to me, the third option is the right one. I'm willing to overlook that provided you give me some damn good reasons as to why you aren't as scummy as you're appearing.
It doesn't work that way. You have to explain why something is scummy in the first place if you want an explanation of why it's less scummy than that. You've explained why you think I'm scummy (doing something only scum do), but not the reason for that reason (why only scum do it).
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Jokerman-EXE

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Re: Supernatural Mafia - Round 2 - Day 2 hates 3rd parties
« Reply #176 on: August 04, 2010, 05:58:01 pm »

Okay, what? I'm just feeling more and more that you're scum.

If you're Town, then you have no need to prove it. You only have need to find and kill the scum. Even if it means you die, the only thing that someone who was really Town would have to do is look for scum. If you're wasting your time on trying to prove you're Town, instead of trying to find scum, you're detracting from the rest of us who are looking for scum, and even if you're not then you need to die and get out of the way.

You must see how it appears scummy that you're trying to prove your Towniness. If you don't, then you're either lying about being Town or you're blind.

Your last statement makes no sense. You admit that I accuse you of doing something that only scum would do. Why, then, is there any question as to why that's scummy? If only scum do it, it's scummy by definition.

I feel like we're going in circles. I'll take whatever rebuttal you have to this post, and if that's not enough then my vote is staying on you and I hope that other people can see how scummy you're acting.
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IronyOwl

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Re: Supernatural Mafia - Round 2 - Day 2 hates 3rd parties
« Reply #177 on: August 04, 2010, 07:33:30 pm »

Okay, what? I'm just feeling more and more that you're scum.

If you're Town, then you have no need to prove it.
So in the first sentence you say you think I'm scum, and in the next one you say town don't need to prove otherwise. So clearly, answering your questions is something only scum would bother to do, right?

No. To be perfectly clear as to why:

You only have need to find and kill the scum. Even if it means you die, the only thing that someone who was really Town would have to do is look for scum.
This is technically correct, but it ignores a vital problem: If you're being lynched, scum isn't being lynched. If you're being suspected, scum isn't being suspected. The second sentence, again, seems to imply that explaining your actions is a waste of time. Can you explain why that's the case or why that's not what it implies?

If you're wasting your time on trying to prove you're Town, instead of trying to find scum, you're detracting from the rest of us who are looking for scum, and even if you're not then you need to die and get out of the way.
As I explained to Toaster, I didn't mean town should waste time trying to appear more townlike, I simply said they should look townlike. Let's use a series of questions to be perfectly clear on this point.

Jokerman-EXE, should town look like scum? I'm guessing the answer is no, that's stupid.

Jokerman-EXE, should town look ambiguous with regards to their alignment? I could see some sort of advantage here, but since scum already know each other it'd be difficult to think of a gambit where this would help more than it hurt.

Jokerman-EXE, should town look like town? No, obviously not, only scum does that. Except, that's the only option left. So either you're trying to say town should try to appear scummy or potentially scummy, or that they shouldn't care at all what they look like. Except...

If you're wasting your time on trying to prove you're Town, instead of trying to find scum, you're detracting from the rest of us who are looking for scum, and even if you're not then you need to die and get out of the way.
Weren't we just on this quote? You seem to grasp that town doing certain things distracts from hunting actual scum, but you apparently reject the notion that looking like scum distracts from actual scum and embrace the notion that trying to prove you're town distracts from actual scum.

Why? Are you trying to say that acting scummy isn't scummy but acting too towny is? Are you trying to say that defending accusations against you is inherently scummy, because town don't need to worry about it? Are you trying to say, after lurking a fair amount yourself, that defending yourself instead of going after scum is useless, and that useless people need to be disposed of? Since three option choices mean the third is correct, why are you acting useless?

You must see how it appears scummy that you're trying to prove your Towniness. If you don't, then you're either lying about being Town or you're blind.
"Prove your towniness" can mean anything. Excessively doing so could seem suspicious, but I never said "town should appear town at the cost of all else" or "you should appear town to cover the fact that you're not." What definition of "prove your towniness" are you talking about, and what makes you think it's the same as mine?

Your last statement makes no sense. You admit that I accuse you of doing something that only scum would do. Why, then, is there any question as to why that's scummy? If only scum do it, it's scummy by definition.
Yes, but whose definition? Yours. It's established that you feel the action is only performed by scum. It is not established that this is actually the case, merely that you've claimed it. If you want to base an argument off something, your argument ends up only being as solid as the base. Since you've neither explained why the base is so, nor used a universally accepted base, your argument doesn't actually mean anything unless someone happens to agree with you.

In other words, I disagree with your assumption that only scum acts like town. Explain why it is true.

I feel like we're going in circles. I'll take whatever rebuttal you have to this post, and if that's not enough then my vote is staying on you and I hope that other people can see how scummy you're acting.
So you're going to engage in fruitless conversation, and if that doesn't work, give up and hold your vote on the basis of an assumption you can't be bothered to explain, the notion that a three-option choice always lists the correct one last, and a conversation you couldn't be bothered to fully comprehend or guide properly.

Nice to see you're so devoted to hunting scum. You also refused to answer any of my questions, though you did claim to not understand at least one of them.
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The kitchenette mold free, you move on to the pantry. it's nasty in there. The bacon is grazing on the lettuce. The ham is having an illicit affair with the prime rib, The potatoes see all, know all. A rat in boxer shorts smoking a foul smelling cigar is banging on a cabinet shouting about rent money.

Jokerman-EXE

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Re: Supernatural Mafia - Round 2 - Day 2 hates 3rd parties
« Reply #178 on: August 04, 2010, 07:56:49 pm »

I got carried away with my point and didn't realize that I didn't answer those of your questions that I did understand. First, I didn't think that your statement was accurate. I'm going to believe that your question regarding irony was rhetorical.

Before I address your points (which I'll admit are pretty valid), I'd like to ask you a question: how many games have you played other than this one?
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Lonewolf I

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Re: Supernatural Mafia - Round 2 - Day 2 hates 3rd parties
« Reply #179 on: August 04, 2010, 08:00:06 pm »

And have you read the wiki?  That's some serious meta-analysis you've got going there.
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