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[Eduren]

Pandarsenic, what do you think is the best way for a replacement to integrate himself into a game?

[Jokerman-EXE]

Unvote.

Okay, meta for a second:

I check Mafia once in the morning and many times in the evening.  If if I want or need to say anything, I say it.  Otherwise, I keep my mouth shut.  It looks like lurking, sure, and if you want to argue that it is lurking, be my guest.  It's how I play all my games, regardless of alignment, and I'm sticking with it.  I'm not going to post arbitrarily on a daily basis just to look active.

THIS so fucking much. Thank you; I'm glad someone finally said this. I feel the same way and it kills me how retarded people get about this.

Back to the game:

Org is sketchy but he might actually have an idea here so I, for one, will leave him to it. I've seen him pop out a masterful plan before, and no one was the wiser.

ToonyMan is pressing a good attack on Mr.Person, but it's pretty much a copy of what Pandar was saying about Org and Lonewolf. While it's true that there are similarities, it feels to me that you're taking Pandar's argument and just pasting it over. That doesn't really feel right.

Pandar is holding his accusation and pressing it. Not much posting to work off of, but that's usual for him. :I

Janus, as always, is very verbose as the game progresses and it looks like he's being almost ganged up on by Mr.Person and/or Lonewolf.

The rest, I'm not exactly seeing a lot to work with. That said, my suspicions are on JanusTwoFace, Mr.Person, and Lonewolf. Their interactions could easily be a buss-buddy move, where two of them are scum and the other is none the wiser. If I had to pick, I'd want to lynch JanusTwoFace, because statistically speaking, if this is a gambit on the scum's part, then he'd be guaranteed to be scum. That would be valuable information.

[JanusTwoface]

Thankfully there's not much game material to go over yet, so I should have something meaningful in a few hours.

27 hours later:

Pandarsenic, what do you think is the best way for a replacement to integrate himself into a game?

Not meaningful.

I check Mafia once in the morning and many times in the evening.  If if I want or need to say anything, I say it.  Otherwise, I keep my mouth shut.  It looks like lurking, sure, and if you want to argue that it is lurking, be my guest.  It's how I play all my games, regardless of alignment, and I'm sticking with it.  I'm not going to post arbitrarily on a daily basis just to look active.

THIS so fucking much. Thank you; I'm glad someone finally said this. I feel the same way and it kills me how retarded people get about this.

You could try being active.  That would negate the need to look active.    Lurking--no matter the excuse--helps the scum.  Sometimes it can't be helped, and I understand that, but this isn't a good reason for it.  If nothing interesting is happening, make something interesting happen.

That being said, I don't generally have that much of a problem with either of your activity levels.  You're nowhere near the level that I really start worrying about, at least not now.  Right now there are people like Eduren and Archangel (to a lesser extent) who are lurking far more.

The rest, I'm not exactly seeing a lot to work with. That said, my suspicions are on JanusTwoFace, Mr.Person, and Lonewolf. Their interactions could easily be a buss-buddy move, where two of them are scum and the other is none the wiser. If I had to pick, I'd want to lynch JanusTwoFace, because statistically speaking, if this is a gambit on the scum's part, then he'd be guaranteed to be scum. That would be valuable information.

So you're saying that Mr.Person, Lonewolf I, and myself are all scum and that the two of them are bussing me?  And that's why you're voting me?  That's an uncommonly bad reason.

[Eduren]

Thankfully there's not much game material to go over yet, so I should have something meaningful in a few hours.

27 hours later:

Pandarsenic, what do you think is the best way for a replacement to integrate himself into a game?

Not meaningful.

Yeah, I'm trying something new. Whenever I replace into a game, I have a hard time integrating myself. I feel like a side-liner.

I have thoughts about the game, which I'll get to, but for now I'm playing with the theory that an effective way of entering the discussion is to have a personal RVS. That post was a random vote and as you can see, is pretty similar to the ones at the beginnings of games (Although I am still obviously interested in Pandarsenic's answer).

[ToonyMan]

I don't think it would be that hard, you came in near the end of the RVS.  That's not very bad at all.

[JanusTwoface]

Yeah, I'm trying something new. Whenever I replace into a game, I have a hard time integrating myself. I feel like a side-liner.

I have thoughts about the game, which I'll get to, but for now I'm playing with the theory that an effective way of entering the discussion is to have a personal RVS. That post was a random vote and as you can see, is pretty similar to the ones at the beginnings of games (Although I am still obviously interested in Pandarsenic's answer).

Soon would be very good.  There's only 16ish hours left in the day.

Especially since there's currently 2 players with 2 votes each and 7 with 1 vote (if I updated the vote count correctly).  Although it's entirely possible I missed something, should have been asleep hours ago.

[Pandarsenic]

At this rate, RVS should be over. Eduren, you should integrate yourself by joining the attacks on Lonewolf I until he acknowledges mine.

[Lonewolf I]

words

Gentlemen, this is Lonewolf I not responding to my accusations.

You accused me of bandwagoning and chainsaw defending Org.  I already provided a defense for the bandwagoning charge when I responded to Janus' attacks.  As for the latter, well, I'm attacking IronyOwl for a scumslip he made while attacking Org.  An appearance of chainsawing is inherent in the situation, and I'm not going to let Owl slide just to look squeaky-clean.

It is indeed based on that passage, and I believe my interpretation of his words is a valid one, whatever you think.  I'd appreciate it if you'd let him defend himself from my accusations.

My primary intention was not to defend him, it was to attack you.  I think that you were deliberately mis-quoting him to try to get a lynch through, thus the FoS.

I was deliberately paraphrasing his quote with the meaning I saw behind his words.  I've explained this already.  If I can't satisfy you by arguing about it, then just call me scum and leave it at that.  We don't need to waste our time if you're not open to accepting my explanations.

[Archangel]

Unvote

If you have a powerful role, tell us now "for the good of the town".

/paraphrase

Behind all your talk of strategy and working together, IronyOwl, is the most blatant case of rolefishing I've seen thus far.  Explain yourself.

I know that others have said similar things, but that does not sound like what he said. It seems more like you were grabbing an excuse to vote for Irony when really you were doing it because he already had a couple of votes.

Jokerman-EXE - What are the odds we have both a Demon and a Devil in addition to the usual scum, as we did last time?

I have no idea. I'm not sure how this is balanced or anything like that.
Wait, weren't the two connected in some way? Or was that just the discussion that went on?

He answered your question, then elaborated on that answer. I don't think that's waffling. So, IronyOwl, what makes you think it is?

Both responses seemed excessively uncertain to me. Almost like nervous chatter. The second in particular seemed like a "So how's that weather, didn't they say it was going to rain today?" thing, not an elaboration.

IronyOwl:  There's scumhunting, and then there's looking around to see who's an easy lynch.  You sure look like you're doing the latter, especially since you mentioned Org policy lynches earlier.  Why are you pressing that when you could be doing original scumhunting?

There weren't a lot of good options, but Jokerman-EXE's response seemed slightly fishy, so I decided to poke at it further. I'm not under the impression that jumping around until someone gives a blatant, obvious scumtell is particularly effective, so poking at anything suspicious seems the way to go.

Ok. Your explanations are sufficient right now so unvote.

(2) It's only your second post of the game.

Irrelevant. This is a character attack that in no way proves IronyOwl's attack to be incorrect.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, you're not supposed to answer for other people. That's not what's going on, I'm FoSing Janus for bullshit. You make some good points, but those two bother me because they seem like the kind of attacks a person trying to make IronyOwl appear scummier than he actually is would say. You know, like scum trying to sling mud.

Wait, what? He was talking about Lonewolf. Why the hell did you say Irony?

JanusTwoface:

(1) You edited IronyOwl's quote, and misquoted him at that.  (IMO, cutting paragraphs is fine, formatting for emphasis is fine, anything else is not.)

I advertised quite plainly that I was doing so, and felt justified as I was in a hurry at the time and it seemed the quickest and plainest way to convey my interpretation of his words. I am pleased to see that I was not misunderstood.

That sounds to me like you're saying Janus is right. A Freudian slip?

The rest, I'm not exactly seeing a lot to work with. That said, my suspicions are on JanusTwoFace, Mr.Person, and Lonewolf. Their interactions could easily be a buss-buddy move, where two of them are scum and the other is none the wiser. If I had to pick, I'd want to lynch JanusTwoFace, because statistically speaking, if this is a gambit on the scum's part, then he'd be guaranteed to be scum. That would be valuable information.

This seems kind of iffy. If fact, it seems very iffy. I'm not sure what to make of it, but it's definitely off.

I'd just like to point out that I'm only able access the internet in the evenings, and this combined with the massive timezone difference between me and everyone else in this game means I am only able to post once per day. Yes, I'm talking to you Janus.
I'm going to leave drawing conclusions 'til tomorrow and hope I feel better then. Right now I'm having trouble thinking. Although I don't think it's necessary, I'll vote Extend, just in case.

[Archangel]

If fact, it seems very iffy.

Damn! A spelling mistake. I knew I should have hit preview. Oh well.

[Mephansteras]

The Scribe's Tally Sheet
Archangel: Solifuge
IronyOwl: Lonewolf I
JanusTwoFace: Jokerman-EXE, Toaster
Jokerman-EXE: IronyOwl
Lonewolf I: Pandarsenic
Mr.Person: ToonyMan
Org: JanusTwoFace
Pandarsenic: Eduren
Solifuge: Mr.Person


Day ends ~5pm Pacific Today

[Mr.Person]

Thank you Archangel for noticing that mistake. I meant Lonewolf but said IronyOwl. Everybody else seems to have glossed over that error, which frankly I find a little odd. Not scummy or anything... just odd. Also, I notice that you unvoted without voting a new player. Why is that?

@Lonewolf

You're defending IronyOwl but you try to make it "OK" by saying that the other party is wrong.

If one player is attacking another player and one of them makes a scummy mistake, yes, I'm going to attack them. It would actually be not ok to NOT attack a player doing something scummy.

Doesn't work like that, how can one appear to make someone "scummier" without going inside their mind and changing their posts somehow miraculously?

You can make someone appear scummier by attacking them and pointing out everything they've done that's scummy. Think of it this way; who APPEARS scummier, a guy who makes a scum-mistake with no fanfare or a guy who makes a scum mistake with 4 other guys yelling at him about how scummy he is?

But ok, replace "make someone appear scummier" with "attack" since that's pretty much what happens when you attack someone. Does that make the stick in your ass more confortable? Your problem seems to be my choice of words and not the content of what I'm saying.

I would also like people to bring me up in discussion more, I fall asleep for 8 or so hours and no one even mentions me.

This doesn't make it ok or anything, but generally people only think about lurkers or people who haven't posted when the people who ARE posting haven't appeared scummy.

Mr.Person:

Three problems with this:

(1) You edited IronyOwl's quote, and misquoted him at that.  (IMO, cutting paragraphs is fine, formatting for emphasis is fine, anything else is not.)

He said it was a paraphrase.

(2) It's only your second post of the game.

Irrelevant. This is a character attack that in no way proves IronyOwl's attack to be incorrect.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, you're not supposed to answer for other people. That's not what's going on, I'm FoSing Janus for bullshit. You make some good points, but those two bother me because they seem like the kind of attacks a person trying to make IronyOwl appear scummier than he actually is would say. You know, like scum trying to sling mud.

Are...are you buddying me?

No, actually, and I have no idea why, but this only makes me more suspiscious of you. If we'll just go and fix the quote to add emphasis on a specific key phrase (and to fix that mistake from earlier)

Yeah, yeah, yeah, you're not supposed to answer for other people. That's not what's going on, I'm FoSing Janus for bullshit. You make some good points, but those two bother me because they seem like the kind of attacks a person trying to make Lonewolf appear scummier than he actually is would say. You know, like scum trying to sling mud.

Did you see it? Here it is again.

make Lonewolf appear scummier

So no, you're not clear on this by any stretch of the imagination. What's going on is that Janus tried to sling mud at you for shitty reasons and I'm calling him on those shitty reasons. If somebody brings forth some non-shitty reasons, things would be different.

@Janus:

He said it was a paraphrase.

If he wanted to paraphrase, I would have much rather he didn't use the quote tags.  Quote =/= paraphrase.  And I don't think he paraphrased, he changed the meaning.  At this point, I guess it's up to you if you think it was paraphrasing or misquoting.

First off, in Lonewolf's mind, he was paraphrasing. That means that he was paraphrasing, end of story. If you want to attack him for his paraphrase, that's another issue entirely. But don't double whammy him and say that his paraphrase-turned-misquote is now being used improperly.

And in any event, does this even matter? Suppose Lonewolf is scum. In what way does him using quote tags in this manner prove he's scum? This just seems like you also having a stick up your ass but this time about people using quote tags with anything besides quotes in them.

(2) It's only your second post of the game.

Irrelevant. This is a character attack that in no way proves IronyOwl's attack to be incorrect.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, you're not supposed to answer for other people. That's not what's going on, I'm FoSing Janus for bullshit. You make some good points, but those two bother me because they seem like the kind of attacks a person trying to make IronyOwl appear scummier than he actually is would say. You know, like scum trying to sling mud.

The second and third points are weak by themselves.  All three together are what makes me suspicious.

But you seem to lack a smoking gun to tie this together. Considering your body of proof seems to be a style error, the fact we've left RVS recently, and a rule-of-thumb that tells you who to check closely, I fail to see why you even responded with an FoS.

Janus:

I comment on anything I see that looks even a little suspicious.  Thus my tendency towards walls of text.  In this case, it's a weak attack because it's weak evidence.

I have seen the behavior I described in games before--heck, I've used it myself a few times--but I'm leaning against it being the case this time.

If it was truly an attack, why didn't you question him on it, or if it's so weak you think it's not meaningful, why mention it?

I don't think it's important right now.  It may become important in the future.  I already have two people that I'm looking at, I don't want to focus too thinly.

OH NOES, NOT THREE PEOPLE! IT WOULD OVERLOAD MY TINY BRAIN! (ok, so this is me just insulting you, I admit that. But hey, it's fun.)

Here's the real juice:
So if it's not an attack, why did you say it? Why do you feel the need to run around saying shit about everyone but not follow up with an actual attack?

@Org:

If my strategy is to be purposefully obnoxious to see who doesn't do anything about it, is it not hunting scum?
Generally, scum will be less likely to go after me. Sure, maybe a stab here and there, but whats the point? He hurts town more when he is town?
Obviously, those who attack and then back off are probably scum.
Oh mah gawd I am so devious.

Unvote, vote Org. I'm just going to flat our admit this is a policy lynch. You don't try and look scummy on purpose. Ever. Trust me Org, you don't need any help in that regard.

Org sounds crazy. But not regular-Org-crazy, I mean he sounds crazier than that. So he has to be trying to sound crazy. The only reason you try and sound crazy is Refuge in Audacity. Nobody tries RiA except scum. So Org, who put you up to RiA?

I've seen Org do this shit so much it hurts. He says stupid shit to see if he can get away with it and surprise surprise, he does. Let's not let Org get away with stupid shit, ok?

[Mephansteras]

I think you messed up your quotes, Mr.Person. Are you voting Org?

[Mr.Person]

Mulligan of the last part (yes I'm voting Org now):

(2) It's only your second post of the game.

Irrelevant. This is a character attack that in no way proves IronyOwl's attack to be incorrect.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, you're not supposed to answer for other people. That's not what's going on, I'm FoSing Janus for bullshit. You make some good points, but those two bother me because they seem like the kind of attacks a person trying to make IronyOwl appear scummier than he actually is would say. You know, like scum trying to sling mud.

The second and third points are weak by themselves.  All three together are what makes me suspicious.

But you seem to lack a smoking gun to tie this together. Considering your body of proof seems to be a style error, the fact we've left RVS recently, and a rule-of-thumb that tells you who to check closely, I fail to see why you even responded with an FoS.

Janus:

I comment on anything I see that looks even a little suspicious.  Thus my tendency towards walls of text.  In this case, it's a weak attack because it's weak evidence.

I have seen the behavior I described in games before--heck, I've used it myself a few times--but I'm leaning against it being the case this time.

If it was truly an attack, why didn't you question him on it, or if it's so weak you think it's not meaningful, why mention it?

I don't think it's important right now.  It may become important in the future.  I already have two people that I'm looking at, I don't want to focus too thinly.

OH NOES, NOT THREE PEOPLE! IT WOULD OVERLOAD MY TINY BRAIN! (ok, so this is me just insulting you, I admit that. But hey, it's fun.)

Here's the real juice:
So if it's not an attack, why did you say it? Why do you feel the need to run around saying shit about everyone but not follow up with an actual attack?

@Org:

If my strategy is to be purposefully obnoxious to see who doesn't do anything about it, is it not hunting scum?
Generally, scum will be less likely to go after me. Sure, maybe a stab here and there, but whats the point? He hurts town more when he is town?
Obviously, those who attack and then back off are probably scum.
Oh mah gawd I am so devious.

Unvote, vote Org. I'm just going to flat our admit this is a policy lynch. You don't try and look scummy on purpose. Ever. Trust me Org, you don't need any help in that regard.

Org sounds crazy. But not regular-Org-crazy, I mean he sounds crazier than that. So he has to be trying to sound crazy. The only reason you try and sound crazy is Refuge in Audacity. Nobody tries RiA except scum. So Org, who put you up to RiA?

I've seen Org do this shit so much it hurts. He says stupid shit to see if he can get away with it and surprise surprise, he does. Let's not let Org get away with stupid shit, ok?

[JanusTwoface]

I was deliberately paraphrasing his quote with the meaning I saw behind his words.  I've explained this already.  If I can't satisfy you by arguing about it, then just call me scum and leave it at that.  We don't need to waste our time if you're not open to accepting my explanations.

OK, you are scummy.  I'd rather lynch Org first.

And in any event, does this even matter? Suppose Lonewolf is scum. In what way does him using quote tags in this manner prove he's scum? This just seems like you also having a stick up your ass but this time about people using quote tags with anything besides quotes in them.

To me, it looks like he was misinterpreting what was said with the intention of provoking suspicion.  That is scummy.  And yes, I don't like editing quotes.

But you seem to lack a smoking gun to tie this together. Considering your body of proof seems to be a style error, the fact we've left RVS recently, and a rule-of-thumb that tells you who to check closely, I fail to see why you even responded with an FoS.

All three together.  Two more scummy things than anyone else at that point warrents suspicion.

OH NOES, NOT THREE PEOPLE! IT WOULD OVERLOAD MY TINY BRAIN! (ok, so this is me just insulting you, I admit that. But hey, it's fun.)

Here's the real juice:
So if it's not an attack, why did you say it? Why do you feel the need to run around saying shit about everyone but not follow up with an actual attack?

At least you admit that it's ad hominem attack.  I never meant to imply that it would overload me, my intention was that it would overload the scum hunting abilities of the town at large.  Focusing on every player that looks even slightly scummy goes poorly, I've tried it before.  So I focus on one or two.