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Author Topic: Starcraft II  (Read 31470 times)

MrWiggles

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Re: Starcraft II
« Reply #420 on: February 23, 2012, 08:40:09 am »

If the maps were popular in SC1, Blizzard didn't offer any compensation for the map makers back then either. Back in SC1, Blizzard still owned all the maps that were made with their map editors, for their game. Map makers weren't allowed to legally sell their maps. That hasn't changed. And another DotA can still happen. Though from the e-sports community, it seems like they're trying to get Blizzard to amend that, but not a lot has been stated publicly about it.

If Blizzard was or is so unhappy with DotA, then why did they host DotA events at their convention? Is there some sorta super hidden controversy where Blizzard tried to control DotA at any point? Like did they try to stop Valve from developing DotA2?

I guess you can try to say, DOTA All-Stars (Though since Blizzard bought them, I suppose it's now just Blizzard) and Valve bickering over a name is Blizzard trying to control DotA? Even though its not about stopping DotA being made. Worse comes to worse, one of them will have to change their name. Big Deal.
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Kanil

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Re: Starcraft II
« Reply #421 on: February 23, 2012, 08:44:05 am »

Okay, so Blizzard owning your maps probably isn't that big of a detriment...

But what about the censorship, the limitations on uploading, and the horrible interface for actually playing the map once it's there?
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Yah, it sounds like minecraft with content, you have obviously missed the point, people dont like content, they like different coloured blocks.
Seems to work fine with my copy. As soon as I loaded the human caravan came by and the world burst into fire.

MrWiggles

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Re: Starcraft II
« Reply #422 on: February 23, 2012, 08:54:31 am »

Okay, so Blizzard owning your maps probably isn't that big of a detriment...

But what about the censorship, the limitations on uploading, and the horrible interface for actually playing the map once it's there?
If your map has offensive materiel on it, then who does the offended party complain to? The person who makes the map or Blizzard? SC2 is rated a Teen Game, even though they get lee way with the rating for online content, that's mostly just because humans can get damn creative circumventing swearing censors. Day9 recently discovered that 'fml' isn't caught by Blizzard censor.

I'm not familiar with the limitation on uploading, so I can't speak to that. Is it number times per week? Number of maps uploaded? Memory size of the map?

If it's the first two, then that just prevent spamming the servers. If its the last one, then that's just taking into account what their servers can handle on average.

As for the UI. While playing the map, if it's a really custom one then the UI is up to the map maker, if it's just a normal game, then I rather like it. Its a direct upgrade from the in game UI in SC1.

If you're talking about the UI if B-net in general. Seems fine.I wouldn't call it terrible. The more high traffic things I do within b-net are all pretty straight forward.
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Frumple

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Re: Starcraft II
« Reply #423 on: February 23, 2012, 10:00:58 am »

If it's the first two, then that just prevent spamming the servers. If its the last one, then that's just taking into account what their servers can handle on average.
Or... or they could have done what they did with SC1 and WC3 and not really had any issue at all as far as that goes, if those are even the major issue. That would have given a bit too much control to the player for current!Blizzard's tastes, though :-\

Still, having trouble finding a concise list of what's screwed up with it, other than mention of a map-size limit -- which didn't exist in WC3, and WC3 got along pretty well as far as that went.

In any case, they didn't have those problems in WC3. That says pretty strongly that if they're applying those sort of limitations, it's not because of the issues you're mentioning.

If your map has offensive materiel on it, then who does the offended party complain to?
They either take it up with the mapmaker or they don't play the map. It isn't blizzard's responsibility to play language or content police on user-created content. Toggleable language filter, sure, but that's the limit of what they should do. They're overstepping their bounds -- bounds established in the massive amount of user-content that basically made WC3 (and SC1, to a lesser degree) what it was -- if they're mandatory-censoring user created content, and it's definitely fair to call them on that.

Anyway... all I know is that almost everything I've heard about the SC2 customs maps have said it's a step backwards from WC3, which is nearly a decade old now. Size limitations, script limitations (arbitrary upper limit on the amount allowed in a map), numerous other things. That... that's bad, Wiggles. It's just bad. Blizz screwed the pooch a bit on this one.

Wish I could actually play the game and see for m'self, but there's no way I'm buying (or acquiring through other means) with the custom scene in the state its in. Considering how much I loved the WC3 custom games... it's sad, man. It's sad :(
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Kanil

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Re: Starcraft II
« Reply #424 on: February 23, 2012, 11:12:01 am »

Okay, so Blizzard owning your maps probably isn't that big of a detriment...

But what about the censorship, the limitations on uploading, and the horrible interface for actually playing the map once it's there?
If your map has offensive materiel on it, then who does the offended party complain to? The person who makes the map or Blizzard? SC2 is rated a Teen Game, even though they get lee way with the rating for online content, that's mostly just because humans can get damn creative circumventing swearing censors. Day9 recently discovered that 'fml' isn't caught by Blizzard censor.

I'm not familiar with the limitation on uploading, so I can't speak to that. Is it number times per week? Number of maps uploaded? Memory size of the map?

If it's the first two, then that just prevent spamming the servers. If its the last one, then that's just taking into account what their servers can handle on average.

As for the UI. While playing the map, if it's a really custom one then the UI is up to the map maker, if it's just a normal game, then I rather like it. Its a direct upgrade from the in game UI in SC1.

If you're talking about the UI if B-net in general. Seems fine.I wouldn't call it terrible. The more high traffic things I do within b-net are all pretty straight forward.

I'm talking about how you can only find players for the ~20 most popular custom games on Battle.net, tops. Playing the same dozen or so maps over and over again is not my definition of fun.

The upload limit is 10 maps per account, not more than 50 MB, and not more than 10MB per map. That's only for one server, so you have to have three accounts to get your map on all the servers.

Lastly, the censor will censor lots of things that aren't particularly sensitive (Astral cites the word "Blizzard" as being censored) and incredibly tame compared to the shit people will actually say to you in game.
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Yah, it sounds like minecraft with content, you have obviously missed the point, people dont like content, they like different coloured blocks.
Seems to work fine with my copy. As soon as I loaded the human caravan came by and the world burst into fire.

Darkmere

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Re: Starcraft II
« Reply #425 on: February 23, 2012, 12:09:09 pm »

It's been mentioned, but when I said custom map selection wasn't worth it, I was referring to the utter lack of variety. If you don't want to play Dota, tug of war, tower D, or lagfest 2012 Special Forces, there's literally nothing else. Remember when SC2 was being promoted and they had all those cool things, like the top-down space shooter? competitive tetris? that mockup of smashTV that ran for a while in beta? Where did they go?

Oh, right. Keyboard input to support those games doesn't work. Maybe I'm bitter, because I tried to do this myself in beta and saw how bad the system is... but all the revolutionary stuff Blizz touted, just doesn't work in practice. The creative people gave up and left. I'd bet some money that's why their ultra-pro map marketplace never came out, either. So yeah, if you don't want to play tug of war, TD, dotaclone, or lagfest crap, custom maps mean nothing.
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Astral

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Re: Starcraft II
« Reply #426 on: February 23, 2012, 04:48:08 pm »

If the maps were popular in SC1, Blizzard didn't offer any compensation for the map makers back then either. Back in SC1, Blizzard still owned all the maps that were made with their map editors, for their game. Map makers weren't allowed to legally sell their maps. That hasn't changed. And another DotA can still happen. Though from the e-sports community, it seems like they're trying to get Blizzard to amend that, but not a lot has been stated publicly about it.

No compensation, but they never ended up simply saying "We're going to take over this map because it's popular" in Starcraft 1 or Warcraft 3. More or less, they allowed mapmaking to continue on its own path, evolving without restriction and resulting in a lot of innovation; if you look at the original Blizzard custom maps, as opposed to some of the masterpieces that came out during the heyday of Warcraft 3, there is no comparison. The original Starcraft is such a long ways back, I'm not even sure why you bother referencing it; the similarities between SC2 and Warcraft 3 are much more apparent, which makes the differences between the two that much more drastic. It's the equivalent of being given the Internet at its fullest, then moving to China where everything is nice and censored and geared toward making everyone happy, since they can't do anything about it.

And yes, memory size of the map (10 maps, spanning 50 MB total) is the entirety of what you can upload. DotA, the original, which made extensive use of ingame textures, sounds and effects (and had 90-95% of its map size being custom coding on skills) neared 10 MB on its own before IceFrog had to start doing some cleanup and compression magic. Anything beyond the complexity of a MOBA or tug of war game won't be as viable, which is a pity in the updated engine.

As far as the UI, I think he means the rather horrid change of making "popular" maps show up first; anything past page 2 will rarely be able to get a game going. Most of those on page 1 and 2 are simple games where you control a single unit, as popularized in DotA, and most people don't even bother joining anything that's reasonably in depth. Civilization? Diplomacy? Staples of the non-DotA custom map genre? Again, if its too complex, it doesn't get pushed to the top because people want instant gratification and simple mechanics. Nothing new survives anymore, and I'm more likely going to get a decent game going on Warcraft 3.

And for the censorship... if parents want their kids to not be exposed to these sorts of things, limit them from playing the game in the first place. It shouldn't have to fall on a company like Blizzard to hold hands and sing kumbaya so the kiddies won't get treated to hearing they play like crap; it starts from the people providing the games to their children in the first place. The swearing censor is one thing, and that can be turned on or off at will, but restricting mapmakers just because someone might see the word "God" in there is pretty ridiculous. That's not even counting the ability to use (and abuse) voice chat, sound clips, and other means. It's like attempting to stop sites of questionable legality on the internet: For each one down, three more pop up in its place, and it's a fruitless attempt to control it. Mind you, this is in a game where character pictures smoke, say "ass" and various other things that would be against their terms of service if someone made a map containing them, but it's okay to break the rules if you make them.

Blizzard has simply fallen, from once a good company that got its roots in the trust of consumers by providing an excellent service, to simply being an antithesis of consumer confidence. Yes, I'm still slightly bitter about the whole ordeal. But as long as people keep eating the shit Blizzard dishes out, they'll keep dishing out shit. Because money.

Guess there are indie games, and Warcraft 3 servers are still around. If only the guy who made Genesis of Empires 2 would fix it for the Warcraft 3 patch that broke it...
« Last Edit: February 23, 2012, 04:51:49 pm by Astral »
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inteuniso

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Re: Starcraft II
« Reply #427 on: June 21, 2012, 11:10:34 am »

So I finally succumbed and bought Starcraft 2. Anyone still playing?
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Bluerobin

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Re: Starcraft II
« Reply #428 on: June 21, 2012, 12:03:12 pm »

I still start it up periodically, but I haven't played against a human since a couple months after it came out. I'd be up for playing sometime if you wanted (and you're on NA... they still have servers region-locked, right?), especially if we can get a little group going. 2v2s or more always seemed more friendly to me.
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forsaken1111

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Re: Starcraft II
« Reply #429 on: June 21, 2012, 12:24:20 pm »

I am terrible at the game, but I do own it and wouldn't be entirely opposed to trying to play again.
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Sirian

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Re: Starcraft II
« Reply #430 on: June 21, 2012, 12:37:05 pm »

I stopped playing SC2 at some point because it would freeze my old computer, but since I have a new computer, i decided to play it again.

I tried playing against the computer yesterday, and even though i won easily, i can see how bad i am, having recently watched a competitive match. I'm in the EU however.

If you want to add me, my character name is Sirian and my number is 230. It sure would be interesting to play with B12ers =)
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Johuotar

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Re: Starcraft II
« Reply #431 on: June 21, 2012, 12:38:42 pm »

My friends no longer play and then theres the region lock so I havent touched it in ages...
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ank

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Re: Starcraft II
« Reply #432 on: August 17, 2012, 12:51:06 am »

Just a small heads up:

I have just gotten a very professional phishing mail, telling me that my Battle.net account had been locked as a security measure.

At first i believed it, but intended to go to battle.net instead of following the link(standard procedure).

I tried logging into starcraft 2 to check, and my account was still live.

As always, never follow a link in a mail telling you some service needs to readjust your password.
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forsaken1111

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Re: Starcraft II
« Reply #433 on: August 17, 2012, 05:58:36 am »

Yeah I got one too. It went straight to my trash bin. Good to spread the word though!
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inteuniso

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Re: Starcraft II
« Reply #434 on: August 17, 2012, 09:08:02 am »

Thanks for the heads-up.

With SCII: HotS coming up, would anyone be up for a Bay12 NA Tournament? I'm thinking either double or single elimination, 1 set of 3 matches. Any interest?
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