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[Dakorma]

Sorry Dak, but I can't here you over the incessant fanboy whining you're doing. Seriously, its just a game.

So care to explain how Bioshock is any better than any of the games I listed? After all I've listed actual reasons for my critique, all you've listed are blanket denials of my reasons citing "fanboy."

I'm not saying Bioshock is better than any of the games you listed because a games entertainment value is an opinion, and mine is different from yours. I can't change that, I never will, stop trying to argue that point.

I'm calling you a fanboy because you're acting like one and raging over the fact that bioshock was regarded as good. Again, this is all other peoples opinions. Being all ragey about it isn't going to change that. I've had this argument many times and it boils down to "Bioshock was shiny, had interesting elements and an intriguing city to experience". EDIT: What I mean by this bit is that's roughly what Bioshock offers.

 If you don't like that and argue that its not as good as another game, then big deal. Its obviously not your type of game, go play the games you do enjoy and stop complaining that people like games you don't.

Its just annoying.

I'm not complaining about that, I'm claiming that it angers me that it has the balls to claim to THE true successor to system shock, improving upon it. And that the fans will see that and instantly believe it despite the fact that it couldn't be less true. As you saw we cleaned up that whole issue.

[ChairmanPoo]

ON the original topic: this thread is interesting:

http://www.shacknews.com/onearticle.x/45797

[Tilla]

ON the original topic: this thread is interesting:

http://www.shacknews.com/onearticle.x/45797

We already know where the new XCOM game is, this rumor is very very old and predates the announcement of that one.

[ChairmanPoo]

THat's ridiculous, if there was any serious X-com remake in the works we would have heard of it alread....

Oh sh*T!

Please, tell me that their "x-com remake" is not the lame FBI xcom FPS

[Xotes]

Please, tell me that their "x-com remake" is not the lame FBI xcom FPS

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

I enjoyed the original X-Com, and I will enjoy the FPS.

You can stop decrying it before it's even out and go back to enjoying good ol' X-Com with the sectoids and the chrysalids and the snakemen and what have you. When it comes out, THEN you can go ahead and decry it all you want, and have fun doing it! I'm certainly not going to stop you.

Now, before I get caught up in a thread-spanning argument over something I don't really care for, I'm off!

[Virtz]

Maybe Project Icarus is... the XCOM website? I just feel an anti-climax like that coming.

Btw. that circle was semi-covered yesterday. For a more silly assumption, maybe this is The Ring: The Game? You might say it's impossible to make a game out of, but they did make Saw: The Game.

Off-topic:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

See the problem with that is, the devs don't really care about default settings, the program them in as variables for a reason. They generally normalized(centered) them for a reason. That was because you couldn't predict what a user would want, thus you would give a middle of the line setting.

Oh, but they do. At least these days. A newly installed game can have sound levels set to certain specific levels for the right sound balance. And the only way I'd believe developers meant for there to be two different atmospheres would be if they provided some alternative, ambient tracks. Music is an integral part of any post-80s game with a budget.

Most immersive game I've ever played would be Planescape Torment, but thief managed the immersion decently.

Well, it's up to the individual. I don't really feel immersion in FPP games for various believability-breaking reasons.

First off, don't use the actual gaming media as measuring stick, they review games as the editor tells them to review it. I can say this having been a game reviewer for IGN. As well as doing freelance work.

I personally don't use media reviews as a measuring stick, but I'm pretty sure the higher-ups who decide what a company should green-light next do. I don't think they tend to hear from the end-users that much.

They were good games mind you, but essentially they were testing beds for the engines, rather than full fledged games on the engine, compare doom to Hexen, same engine, but one is MUCH better than than the other.

Well, that's a matter of taste I guess. Somehow I found the level design in the early Doom 1 levels to be better than in most subsequent Idtech 1 games and thus find it easier to replay than the monotone mazes of other such games.

Thing is bethesda back then had a hard on for procedural generation that would rival Notch or Toady's. The levels were open yes, but the same is true for Daggerfall.
They weren't designed so much as generated. You can ultimately blame toady for the creation of a DF universe, but he had no hand in actually generating it.

I'm not sure about that. I'd have to go and replay it again, but the game advertises to be set in some semi-accurate depiction of central Los Angeles. Would be strange if this Los Angeles was procedurally generated.
And I don't see how the procedural generation would disqualify it. Procedural generation may very well generate a completely linear level if programmed to do so.

Correction, you only find that out at the end of the cock tease X-Pak to the sequel. Yes you can kind of piece together an event log of what happened, but much of what you learn about it only comes from interviews with the devs and the sequel. http://www.members.shaw.ca/halflifestory/expandedinfo.htm can give you more info then you'd ever really need to enjoy the game.

I don't think so. The scientists briefing you on what you're supposed to do tell you that the sample is unstable. You see the G-Man on 2 separate occasions with a scientist before the cascade, although I can't remember whether or not you're able to listen in on the two talking (might've just been muffled mumbling from across the window). You see him after the cascade a few times. And at the end, the G-Man directly tells you about how they took control of the Xen border world as a result.

[Dakorma]

Maybe Project Icarus is... the XCOM website? I just feel an anti-climax like that coming.

Btw. that circle was semi-covered yesterday. For a more silly assumption, maybe this is The Ring: The Game? You might say it's impossible to make a game out of, but they did make Saw: The Game.

Quite true, but unlikely.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Off-topic:

See the problem with that is, the devs don't really care about default settings, the program them in as variables for a reason. They generally normalized(centered) them for a reason. That was because you couldn't predict what a user would want, thus you would give a middle of the line setting.

Oh, but they do. At least these days. A newly installed game can have sound levels set to certain specific levels for the right sound balance. And the only way I'd believe developers meant for there to be two different atmospheres would be if they provided some alternative, ambient tracks. Music is an integral part of any post-80s game with a budget.

True, but in most cases, they now do a stepping pattern with sound, voice taking precedence, then effect, and finally music is generally set from one quarter to one third of the way up.

Most immersive game I've ever played would be Planescape Torment, but thief managed the immersion decently.

Well, it's up to the individual. I don't really feel immersion in FPP games for various believability-breaking reasons.

It's rare that it does for me too. Planescape being isometric, Thief being the only FPP game that immerses me quite well, with System Shock 2 coming in a close second.

First off, don't use the actual gaming media as measuring stick, they review games as the editor tells them to review it. I can say this having been a game reviewer for IGN. As well as doing freelance work.

I personally don't use media reviews as a measuring stick, but I'm pretty sure the higher-ups who decide what a company should green-light next do. I don't think they tend to hear from the end-users that much.

Exactly the problem, the editors get payed by the dev's and the publishers, or by being given bribes. To give a good review. The publishers themselves tend to green light things that will be able to get good reviews. Because good reviews in a magazines, mean you get more people to sucker into buying something.

They were good games mind you, but essentially they were testing beds for the engines, rather than full fledged games on the engine, compare doom to Hexen, same engine, but one is MUCH better than than the other.

Well, that's a matter of taste I guess. Somehow I found the level design in the early Doom 1 levels to be better than in most subsequent Idtech 1 games and thus find it easier to replay than the monotone mazes of other such games.

They are good games there's no denying it. They were just tech demos as well.

Thing is bethesda back then had a hard on for procedural generation that would rival Notch or Toady's. The levels were open yes, but the same is true for Daggerfall.
They weren't designed so much as generated. You can ultimately blame toady for the creation of a DF universe, but he had no hand in actually generating it.

I'm not sure about that. I'd have to go and replay it again, but the game advertises to be set in some semi-accurate depiction of central Los Angeles. Would be strange if this Los Angeles was procedurally generated.
And I don't see how the procedural generation would disqualify it. Procedural generation may very well generate a completely linear level if programmed to do so.

Play Daggerfall, the cities in that, were completely procedurally generated, as was the landscape, but it still followed a general guide.

Correction, you only find that out at the end of the cock tease X-Pak to the sequel. Yes you can kind of piece together an event log of what happened, but much of what you learn about it only comes from interviews with the devs and the sequel. http://www.members.shaw.ca/halflifestory/expandedinfo.htm can give you more info then you'd ever really need to enjoy the game.

I don't think so. The scientists briefing you on what you're supposed to do tell you that the sample is unstable. You see the G-Man on 2 separate occasions with a scientist before the cascade, although I can't remember whether or not you're able to listen in on the two talking (might've just been muffled mumbling from across the window). You see him after the cascade a few times. And at the end, the G-Man directly tells you about how they took control of the Xen border world as a result.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rZO-XWxkgeI, brief mention, then nothing else but the job offer.

[Virtz]

The circle is closing now? Is that a... blinking big daddy? :|

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

True, but in most cases, they now do a stepping pattern with sound, voice taking precedence, then effect, and finally music is generally set from one quarter to one third of the way up.

Depends on game type. In case of voices, most these days actually try to be cinematic and have music be the leading thing at some places (dramatic reveals, for example) till someone starts talking and then it goes quieter.

Exactly the problem, the editors get payed by the dev's and the publishers, or by being given bribes. To give a good review. The publishers themselves tend to green light things that will be able to get good reviews. Because good reviews in a magazines, mean you get more people to sucker into buying something.

Which brings us back to the point of doing things the console way versus just doing things the FPS way. Oblivion and Morrowind were examples of a viable console RPG way of doing inventory, which would still rake in good reviews. I think they just consciously chose to do it the FPS way without particularly looking towards what would get better marks.

Also, I wouldn't say the editors get directly bribed as such. Rather the sites/magazines which give higher marks are more likely to get exclusive previews, invitations to private showings, etc., giving them higher readership. Not to mention those who would rage and never again read something if it gave their favourite game too low a score. Giving high scores to popular games is safe and while some will mumble about something getting too high a score, they won't lose too many readers over it.

They are good games there's no denying it. They were just tech demos as well.

But that way you could classify a considerable amount of games as tech demos. Is Duke Nukem 3D a tech demo of the Build engine? Is Half-Life 2 a tech demo of the source engine? Is System Shock a tech demo of the engine they later used for Terra Nova? A tech demo generally aims to showcase all of the engine's notable features (and not really do anything else), and yet the later games made on these engines did more than was shown in the initial games using the engines.

Play Daggerfall, the cities in that, were completely procedurally generated, as was the landscape, but it still followed a general guide.

I did, but singular cases do not a rule make. Bethesda developed quite a few games besides Arena(1994) and Daggerfall(1996) at the time. They made about 4 different Terminator games. Some corridor shooters, some mission based shooters. I don't think anything besides TES was really procedurally generated. The only way to really know if it was procedurally generated would be to play the game itself and compare maps from two different sessions.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rZO-XWxkgeI, brief mention, then nothing else but the job offer.

Yup. Still something. Quite a bit more than a Doom-level storyline anyway.

[Tilla]

I doubt it'd be a big daddy, I'm pretty sure Ken Levine says it's an original IP

[Virtz]

Bumping this since the reveal is tomorrow and now the teaser site actually looks like... an 8?

[Calhoun]

Bioshock Infinite.

Looks pretty cool, actually.

[Tellemurius]

maybe this time we get some epic air battles instead of the lame underwater ones from bioshock 2.

[ILikePie]

I'd better finish bioshock then.


Looks like some kind of prequel, set in a steampunk city in the sky.

[Tilla]

:/ They promised new IP. They lied.

[Virtz]

I'm getting this sense of deja vu here. And if this is a prequel, then just how common is this shit in the Bioshock universe? If all of this happens decades before Bioshock, then it sort of ruins any "novelty" of the things you find in Bioshock. It actually makes all the accomplishments in Bioshock seem like banging rocks if they already had all of this stuff before WWI.