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Author Topic: Bioshock: Infinite (aka Project Icarus)  (Read 22293 times)

SHAD0Wdump

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Re: Project Icarus: What the crap is it!?
« Reply #15 on: July 27, 2010, 06:08:15 pm »

Tribes... It would be awesome if someone made a Tribes 2 game, except just update it. Tribes was pretty sweet from what I remember.
There is a Tribes 2. And it is free. http://www.tribesnext.com/

 If this is a tribes style game, they better not fuck with the formula like everyone else seems to do. Those 'deployable dispensers' in Vengeance pissed me off. I should be able to buy those whenever I want. Plus they did a piss poor job of making the game modable.

 Also, I don't think they can use the tribes IP, that was obtained by those instant action guys who let their site get shoved into the freezer to gather freezer burn.
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Ioric Kittencuddler

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Re: Project Icarus: What the crap is it!?
« Reply #16 on: July 27, 2010, 08:53:49 pm »

Oh yeah.  That company that used to make some good games...  Maybe they can get back into it... but most likely it'll just be more consolized stuff.
Consolized? SWAT 4 is pretty far from "consolish", wasn't even ported to consoles. And Bioshock was basically a modernized System Shock 2 in the 50s. Where do you see this consolization?

Bioshock was a console FPS with everything that entails.  Besides, the company doesn't even have a name anymore.  I can't reasonably expect much from that.
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Re: Project Icarus: What the crap is it!?
« Reply #17 on: July 27, 2010, 09:14:45 pm »

Oh yeah.  That company that used to make some good games...  Maybe they can get back into it... but most likely it'll just be more consolized stuff.
Consolized? SWAT 4 is pretty far from "consolish", wasn't even ported to consoles. And Bioshock was basically a modernized System Shock 2 in the 50s. Where do you see this consolization?

Bioshock was a console FPS with everything that entails.  Besides, the company doesn't even have a name anymore.  I can't reasonably expect much from that.

No, they were giving their name back this year and apperently some measure of autonomy from 2K Games since they were able to refuse doing BioShock 2.
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Dakorma

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Re: Project Icarus: What the crap is it!?
« Reply #18 on: July 28, 2010, 03:27:02 am »

Oh yeah.  That company that used to make some good games...  Maybe they can get back into it... but most likely it'll just be more consolized stuff.
Consolized? SWAT 4 is pretty far from "consolish", wasn't even ported to consoles. And Bioshock was basically a modernized System Shock 2 in the 50s. Where do you see this consolization?
Please never again compare Bioshock to the majesty of gameplay and atmosphere, that was System Shock 2. Bioshock pales in comparison to it.

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Virtz

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Re: Project Icarus: What the crap is it!?
« Reply #19 on: July 28, 2010, 05:54:32 am »

Oh yeah.  That company that used to make some good games...  Maybe they can get back into it... but most likely it'll just be more consolized stuff.
Consolized? SWAT 4 is pretty far from "consolish", wasn't even ported to consoles. And Bioshock was basically a modernized System Shock 2 in the 50s. Where do you see this consolization?
Please never again compare Bioshock to the majesty of gameplay and atmosphere, that was System Shock 2. Bioshock pales in comparison to it.
I'm sorry, I can't hear you over the pumping techno music! Seriously, any tension SS2 might've had was instantly erased by the freaking deathmatch music.

I played through System Shock 2 relatively recently and I did not find it different enough to warrant the rage over Bioshock. Eternally respawning enemies - check. Revival stations - check. Paranormal powers - check. Hacking - check. Only things really different were the skill and inventory systems. I wouldn't call the changes consolish (Oblivion is consolish and even that's got skills and inventory), I'd call them FPSish.
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Dakorma

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Re: Project Icarus: What the crap is it!?
« Reply #20 on: July 28, 2010, 07:22:10 am »

Oh yeah.  That company that used to make some good games...  Maybe they can get back into it... but most likely it'll just be more consolized stuff.
Consolized? SWAT 4 is pretty far from "consolish", wasn't even ported to consoles. And Bioshock was basically a modernized System Shock 2 in the 50s. Where do you see this consolization?
Please never again compare Bioshock to the majesty of gameplay and atmosphere, that was System Shock 2. Bioshock pales in comparison to it.
I'm sorry, I can't hear you over the pumping techno music! Seriously, any tension SS2 might've had was instantly erased by the freaking deathmatch music.

I played through System Shock 2 relatively recently and I did not find it different enough to warrant the rage over Bioshock. Eternally respawning enemies - check. Revival stations - check. Paranormal powers - check. Hacking - check. Only things really different were the skill and inventory systems. I wouldn't call the changes consolish (Oblivion is consolish and even that's got skills and inventory), I'd call them FPSish.
So turn it down to where it's a faint whisper, or even not there at all. I've never been as panicked playing a game as I have being on Deck 6 and triggering an alarm. Hell just unscripted encounters with random zombies as they grated out "KIIILLL MMMEEE," would scare the fuck out of me if they startled me.

Where Bioshock would attempt to frighten you with a scripted encounter with some splicers that got boring the second time you watched it, System Shock 2 had systems in place that if you fucked up it would have you by the seat of your pants without a heavily scripted encounter.

The stat system itself was heavily dumbed down, to the point where you could do pretty much everything at once equally well. In system shock you could be the Psi Guy, the Tech Guy, or the Shooty Guy, or a mix of two of them, if you tried to do all three, you were screwing yourself over most times. In Bioshock, you can do everything. And very little challenge is derived because of that.

The interface itself was very consolized, managing your inventory in SShock was a challenge and help promote realism and atmosphere, in Bioshock you end up looking like every other FPS hero, carrying a rocket launcher, 22 rockets, a machine gun, 13 clips of ammo for it, a pistol, 22 clips for this, SMG, 25 for this, a camera, 10 grenades, a massive wrench. In SShock, 2 of those alone would fill your inventory, and forget about a psy amp to work your powers. Things also had durability, which prevented you from getting too used to any one gun.
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Virtz

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Re: Project Icarus: What the crap is it!?
« Reply #21 on: July 28, 2010, 10:02:07 am »

I'm sorry, I can't hear you over the pumping techno music! Seriously, any tension SS2 might've had was instantly erased by the freaking deathmatch music.

I played through System Shock 2 relatively recently and I did not find it different enough to warrant the rage over Bioshock. Eternally respawning enemies - check. Revival stations - check. Paranormal powers - check. Hacking - check. Only things really different were the skill and inventory systems. I wouldn't call the changes consolish (Oblivion is consolish and even that's got skills and inventory), I'd call them FPSish.
So turn it down to where it's a faint whisper, or even not there at all.
And if I turn down the gamma, it'll be darker than Doom 3. Thing is, the developers put it there for some reason. Unless they had no idea what they were doing.

I've never been as panicked playing a game as I have being on Deck 6 and triggering an alarm. Hell just unscripted encounters with random zombies as they grated out "KIIILLL MMMEEE," would scare the fuck out of me if they startled me.

Where Bioshock would attempt to frighten you with a scripted encounter with some splicers that got boring the second time you watched it, System Shock 2 had systems in place that if you fucked up it would have you by the seat of your pants without a heavily scripted encounter.
You should play a game that's actually scary. Like Silent Hill. Games where I can just resurrect and go back to circle-strafing and bonking clumsy zombies over the head with a wrench aren't very intimidating.

The stat system itself was heavily dumbed down, to the point where you could do pretty much everything at once equally well. In system shock you could be the Psi Guy, the Tech Guy, or the Shooty Guy, or a mix of two of them, if you tried to do all three, you were screwing yourself over most times. In Bioshock, you can do everything. And very little challenge is derived because of that.

The interface itself was very consolized, managing your inventory in SShock was a challenge and help promote realism and atmosphere, in Bioshock you end up looking like every other FPS hero, carrying a rocket launcher, 22 rockets, a machine gun, 13 clips of ammo for it, a pistol, 22 clips for this, SMG, 25 for this, a camera, 10 grenades, a massive wrench. In SShock, 2 of those alone would fill your inventory, and forget about a psy amp to work your powers. Things also had durability, which prevented you from getting too used to any one gun.
I still wouldn't call it consolized anymore than I would call Doom, Quake or Painkiller consolized. It just got more FPSish.
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Dakorma

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Re: Project Icarus: What the crap is it!?
« Reply #22 on: July 28, 2010, 10:50:07 am »

I'm sorry, I can't hear you over the pumping techno music! Seriously, any tension SS2 might've had was instantly erased by the freaking deathmatch music.

I played through System Shock 2 relatively recently and I did not find it different enough to warrant the rage over Bioshock. Eternally respawning enemies - check. Revival stations - check. Paranormal powers - check. Hacking - check. Only things really different were the skill and inventory systems. I wouldn't call the changes consolish (Oblivion is consolish and even that's got skills and inventory), I'd call them FPSish.
So turn it down to where it's a faint whisper, or even not there at all.
And if I turn down the gamma, it'll be darker than Doom 3. Thing is, the developers put it there for some reason. Unless they had no idea what they were doing.
You do realize that on modern hardware old games need to be reconfigured and tend to look over saturated on LCDs? Hell, I generally turn the music off in every game I play. Unless it's a phenomenal soundtrack, such as Arcanum, I don't listen to it.

The music does enhance the heart pumping factor of alerts on high difficulty levels however.
Quote
I've never been as panicked playing a game as I have being on Deck 6 and triggering an alarm. Hell just unscripted encounters with random zombies as they grated out "KIIILLL MMMEEE," would scare the fuck out of me if they startled me.

Where Bioshock would attempt to frighten you with a scripted encounter with some splicers that got boring the second time you watched it, System Shock 2 had systems in place that if you fucked up it would have you by the seat of your pants without a heavily scripted encounter.
You should play a game that's actually scary. Like Silent Hill. Games where I can just resurrect and go back to circle-strafing and bonking clumsy zombies over the head with a wrench aren't very intimidating.
  You should play a game that does scripted atmosphere right, play Thief. Creepy tricks that only work if you don't expect them.

Also if it's too easy for you, play on a harder difficulty level, and play further into the game, I'd like to see you take out some turrets with that clunky wrench.
Quote
The stat system itself was heavily dumbed down, to the point where you could do pretty much everything at once equally well. In system shock you could be the Psi Guy, the Tech Guy, or the Shooty Guy, or a mix of two of them, if you tried to do all three, you were screwing yourself over most times. In Bioshock, you can do everything. And very little challenge is derived because of that.

The interface itself was very consolized, managing your inventory in SShock was a challenge and help promote realism and atmosphere, in Bioshock you end up looking like every other FPS hero, carrying a rocket launcher, 22 rockets, a machine gun, 13 clips of ammo for it, a pistol, 22 clips for this, SMG, 25 for this, a camera, 10 grenades, a massive wrench. In SShock, 2 of those alone would fill your inventory, and forget about a psy amp to work your powers. Things also had durability, which prevented you from getting too used to any one gun.
I still wouldn't call it consolized anymore than I would call Doom, Quake or Painkiller consolized. It just got more FPSish.
Fine do you want me to cover controls on the PC then? How about the shitty DX10 implementation?

THE SHOCK GAMES WEREN'T MEANT TO BE LIKE THAT. THEY WERE MEANT TO EVOLVE FPS GAMEPLAY AWAY FROM THAT, SAME WITH DEUS EX AND THIEF. INSTEAD THE CONSOLE DEVS, REALIZING THAT INVENTORY SYSTEMS DON'T WORK WHEN YOU HAVE TO MAKE THEM LIST BASED, DECIDED TO CUT OUT A REALISM AND DIFFICULTY ENHANCING ELEMENT. DOOM AND QUAKE GAME'S WERE SHITTY, THEY WERE THE FIRST GAMES TO COME OUT IN THE GENRE RUSH, AND WERE PRIMARILY TECH DEMOS, MEANT TO SHOWCASE WHAT COULD BE DONE WITH THE NEW GENRE. It wasn't until you had deus ex, system shock, and thief, that you saw games start to gravitate away from the linear levels, and arcade style gameplay that were common in them, and start to focus on meatier elements. Things like, level design, pacing, actual game systems beyond shooting, AI. They were drawing on the innovations of another genre that's declined since consoles bled over, the RPG.

The FPS in those games was no longer a defining genre, it was a gameplay element. Bioshock and games recently basically took a shit on all that and said, "We're gonna go to the doom/half-life method of linear levels and gameplay from the eighties.

Before you say that half-life innovated, tell me how, it's doom with more plot explanation and PLATFORMING, and because it was so popular, that is what caught on.

What is the plot of Doom, doom marine arrives on mars, mars is infested with demons, kill all demons. Plot to Half-Life, Freeman arrives, 10 minutes later, resonance cascade, base infested by demonsaliens, kill all demonsaliens. The only difference is that now, you have to escort the fucking keysNPCs to the door they open.

Excellent level design now means making it pretty. Excellent gameplay now means either shitty cover systems, or gameplay lifted from the eighties. Excellent writing now means Fallout 3.

The only thing that's really improved, is the graphics. Yes the thing that REALLY doesn't matter, AT ALL, has improved.
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PTTG??

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Re: Project Icarus: What the crap is it!?
« Reply #23 on: July 28, 2010, 10:52:41 am »

You are very angry about video games.
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Tilla

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Re: Project Icarus: What the crap is it!?
« Reply #24 on: July 28, 2010, 10:53:35 am »

Quote from: Dakorma
words

TLDR; Cool story bro


Also Irrational launched a teaser site
http://whatisicarus.com/
« Last Edit: July 28, 2010, 11:38:30 am by Tilla »
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dogstile

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Re: Project Icarus: What the crap is it!?
« Reply #25 on: July 28, 2010, 03:20:38 pm »

Sorry Dak, but I can't here you over the incessant fanboy whining you're doing. Seriously, its just a game.

OT: anyone got any more ideas on what Icarus is? We've kinda gone off topic.
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Re: Project Icarus: What the crap is it!?
« Reply #26 on: July 28, 2010, 03:22:30 pm »

Looks like it's a moon seen through a narrow canyon.
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Tilla

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Re: Project Icarus: What the crap is it!?
« Reply #27 on: July 28, 2010, 03:46:04 pm »

Maybe it's an FPS based on Twilight, the kids love that stuff!

On a more serious note, I saw a video of a prototype game they were doing before BioShock, which was basically SWAT 4 with zombies. God damn it looked like it had potential.
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Dakorma

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Re: Project Icarus: What the crap is it!?
« Reply #28 on: July 28, 2010, 03:59:13 pm »

Sorry Dak, but I can't here you over the incessant fanboy whining you're doing. Seriously, its just a game.
So care to explain how Bioshock is any better than any of the games I listed? After all I've listed actual reasons for my critique, all you've listed are blanket denials of my reasons citing "fanboy."


About the only good game to come out in the past few years has been Assassin's Creed. It's really the only one that's managed to innovate in any way with gameplay systems, and even then in a massively dumbed down way and likely won't be talked about in the years to come. That's the thing, SShock, Deus Ex, Thief, these all inspired near genres and legions of fans. Who even talks about Bioshock now except to say it was a game that came out that was good. Are people, journalists even, to this day, saying things like, "BIOSHOCK MAN, IT'S THE FUCKING BEST GAME I'VE EVER PLAYED." No they continue on to the next fad. Yahtzee, you know, the overly critical of everything, declares Thief to be the only game to ever do stealth well. And brings it up about every fifth update. Shamus Young a blogger for the escapist, who does their features on the industry and gameplay mechanics. WROTE A FUCKING NOVEL LENGTH ADAPTATION OF SYSTEM SHOCK 1. So let's turn our browsers to the biggest source of fanfiction on the internet. HINT: add a .net to it. Bioshock has 397 fics and not one completed or in progress is over 100,000 words, the average novel length. Shamus Young's adaptation being 150,000 words in length and complete. Deus Ex is mentioned in the top ten of about every non-internet poll, best games of all time. Along with my much reviled half-life.

Quote
OT: anyone got any more ideas on what Icarus is? We've kinda gone off topic.
Judging by the team, and company making it, likely an FPS. Possibly focusing on Soft Sci-Fi, with horror elements. MAYBE focusing on transhuman elements. As it is right now that image could be anything, an arm, a moon, a flood light, the sun, a snake, anything is possible.

@Tilla, and that is what we mourn, that the publishers are forcing the developers to dumb down their ideas to fit with the console bleed generation.
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Re: Project Icarus: What the crap is it!?
« Reply #29 on: July 28, 2010, 04:09:07 pm »

Calm yourself down, bro.
 
Nobody's forcing you to play games you don't want to, and playing games that are less than masterpieces, or even less than "good", is not really a tradgedy.
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