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[ronnyfire]

Before any of this. I am not a fan of Starcraft. I own it and its expansion, i have played them both in the distant past and more recently(a few months ago) and it wasn't my thing. C&C has spoiled me on the RTS games.

Sometimes something is popular because its good, despite how many people say its bad (Read: Dwarf fortress)  .

If many people dislike something, by definition, doesn't that make it unpopular? By virtue of being good doesn't make something popular. Look at Beta tapes and MiniDiscs. They were good. But not popular. Look what happened to them. Star Craft 2 is popular because it is hyped up. Nothing more.

A lot of people disliking something doesn't make it unpopular, a lack of people who do like it make it unpopular. look at the tons of people who have never played WoW who hate it, and its still basically the most popular MMO. Anyways! Onto stuff just in general, not targeting AnalogX directly.

Blizzard isn't a bad company, obviously, AFAIK. They want to make money... Like everything else?? Everyone in the company needs money to pay for food and housing and everything else that comes with living. If they didn't try to make money, why bother organizing a company to make games?

I could see calling them a bad company if they often screw gamers over, but they are often really cool. In fact, if you have an old CD key from a game of theirs, but your CD is broken / missing, (or even if you just want to) you can go to the blizzard page and make an account, bind the CD key to the account, and download the game whenever you want for free, as many times as you want. Name another company (aside from Steam) that goes out of their way to do something like that for their players?

I am not a Blizzard fan boy. I played WoW for a while, got bored and quit forever ago. Its not a bad game, just not my thing. Played a good amount of Diablo 1 as a kid at my uncles house, was entertaining, but i don't remember it mostly. I own Diablo 2, its a good game, although repetitive if you want to play the same class for more than one play through. Never played Lost Vikings or Warcraft 1. Played a little Warcraft 2, got bored. not my kinda RTS, same with Warcraft 3. Although i played countless hours of player made maps in Warcraft 3. And as above stated, I played Starcraft and Brood War, neither was my thing.

I just saw a friend today (yesterday now actually) that i hadn't seen in many months. He is pretty critical on games normally. He spent half (more like all, but lets be nice ) the time i was around talking about Starcraft 2 and how much he likes it so far, despite getting the crap kicked out of him in online play. I myself am not interested in Starcraft 2, but how can something so many people like, that causes no harm to others even. How can that be bad?

Ill stop rambling on now because its almost 3:00 AM, and i really should sleep. But i couldn't understand how so many people can say they hate blizzard, or that they make bad games. When i have never played one i thought was bad, or heard any good argument for any game they have made being bad.

[Tortan]

I agree with ronnyfire.  There are only two things that irk me about Blizzard these days.  One is the move toward providing vanity items for a price in WoW.  These items don't actually help you play the game better, they're simply for looks, so it's not that bad, but still...  I'd rather see them put the items in the game for free as part of an insanely hard quest line, or a very long quest line.  The other thing is the region-locking for SC2.  Australia apparently won't have region locking on their game, so why can't everyone?  It's going to make it a pain for international tournaments.

In any case, I've been playing SC2 over the past two days, and I've been really enjoying the game.  The Dwarf Fortress reference completely slipped by me, but I believe that it probably is a reference, based on the fact that there are other direct references in WoW. 

I really don't understand the viewpoint that Blizzard is somehow effecting "cultural diversity" in games.  What does that even mean?  Blizzard is constantly changing things in their games, how they work, the mechanics of it all, changing and making new encounters and ideas, etc.  I've also seen some very interesting custom maps for SC2, everything from shoot-em-up side-scrollers to First Person Shooters.


I am not a Blizzard fanboy, I am critical and analytical about the games I play, and the changes that Blizzard makes.  All of the changes are definitely not for the best, but they listen to the feedback of the people playing their games, which is something I really enjoy about Blizzard.  I think most of the hate against Blizzard is because of its popularity, and that's a bad reason to hate something.  It's equivalent to arguing that something is good or right because it is popular or "accepted".

[docawesome]

I would like to buy it but I refuse to aid that cancer called Activision lead by a guy I am sure has done more damage to gaming then Jack Thompson.

[KrunkSplein]

I personally dislike the RTS genre because I am terrible at it.  I turtle.  While that makes for an excellent DF strategy, it doesn't work so well in an RTS scenario. 

As Tortan mentioned, the egregiously expensive vanity items are a strike against Blizzard.  Though of course, that is a matter of opinion.  If I were playing WoW and throwing together a pick-up group for an instance, I would actively avoid the guy on the stupid horse, as he obviously has more money than sense.

But the heart of the matter is something that DocAwesome mentioned, though not in a very productive way.  Activision is a terrible company, led by a miserable man who has gone on record saying that fun in a game is not important.  Blizzard has the capital and clout to self-publish and develop.  They don't need Activision (though Activision desperately needs Blizzard).  If Blizzard could buy their independence, I would be much less apprehensive about purchasing their products.

As to the original purpose of the thread, I believe this is more likely an Aliens reference than a DF reference.  Still a great reference.

[Tortan]

An interesting excerpt from the wikipedia article on the merger:

Activision and Blizzard Entertainment still exist as separate entities.[13] The holding company does not publish games under its central name and instead uses its subsidiaries to publish games, similar to how Vivendi Games operated before the merger.[14] The merger makes Activision parent company of Vivendi Games former divisions.
While Blizzard retained its autonomy and corporate leadership, other Vivendi Games divisions did not. For example, long-time label Sierra ceased operation. With the merger, there was a rumor that if a Sierra product did not meet Activision's requirements, they "won't likely be retained."[15] Some of Sierra's games such as Crash Bandicoot, Spyro the Dragon and Prototype have been retained and are now published by Activision.[16] Also, due to the closure of Sierra, the Sierra Community Forums servers have been shut down as of the 1st of November 2008.

It's also interesting to note that Vivendi owns 52% percent of the shares in the new company, after the merger.

[nbonaparte]

I never even found the whadda-ya-call-'em's...

Grox?

[Captain Alchatron]

The thing that irked me the most about spore's space stage was the CONSTANT "pirate attack" or "environmental disaster". You don't get to do[/] anything because of those interruptions. I never had a chance to get bored with monotonous teraforming/etc...

There is a mod somewhere that allows you to set a time between these annoyances.  Can't remember the name though, I'm afraid...  Nevertheless I did find the same problem and gave up about an hour into the Space Age.  As you said, the City Stage was the best.  Nuking cities and then having them reeling with radiation was priceless.

As for all this needless Blizzard hate... you chaps probably simply don't like the genres involved, I suspect.  You'll find even the top PC gaming magazines endorse World of Warcraft.  Personally I'm not a huge fan of the actual gameplay, but then that's what roleplay's there for.  With the amount of narratives and the like written on Bay12 I'm surprised no-one else is into it. 

And as for the reference... good spotting!  It's quite a lot more subtle than the upcoming Cataclysm one, but you never know, it could be more than coincidence.

[Noble Digger]

Star Craft 2 is popular because it is hyped up. Nothing more.

Ignorance Keep drinking the kool-aid bro. I really love your inference that because the previous poster has a Hydralisk as his forum avatar, he is incapable of honest communication contrary to your points. I mean it, I do. It makes me smile to see self-delusion in full swing like this. Hey, my forum avatar is from Xenogears, you may not realize it, but I'm secretly directing all my worldly efforts toward subtly altering the fabric of timespace so that a true Xenogears sequel\prequel can be made (Xenosaga was a disgrace since it was made in cooperation with Namco rather than Square, who hold on to much of the IP rights. I would say anything to achieve my goals, even falsely claim that Starcraft 2 is popular \ a good game.

[nophilip]

If many people dislike something, by definition, doesn't that make it unpopular?

Look at singers like Hannah Montana or Justin Bieber. Widely popular, yet also widely hated.

[Kagus]

If many people dislike something, by definition, doesn't that make it unpopular?

Look at singers like Hannah Montana or Justin Bieber. Widely popular, yet also widely hated.

But the number of people who like them outnumber the people who dislike them.  Popularity is about numbers, not so much the feelings.


Noble Digger, please refrain from making personal attacks on other posters.  It never helps anything.

As for everyone else (and this is important)...  Please do not hide behind a theoretical majority to support your views.  If you like Starcraft, good for you.  If you don't like Starcraft, good for you.  Your point is valid for you because you feel it.  You will not and cannot gain any more validity by saying that "many other people" feel the same way you do.  This is entirely a matter of personal preference.

If you want to philosophically discuss the semantics of the word "popular", go right ahead.  It's fun.  But majority opinion has got absolutely nothing to do with anything.  If you feel one way, say you feel that way.  Don't mention a number of 'other people' who may or may not feel that way just so that you've got some mystery backup against anyone attacking your point.


Now, do you think it's possible we can all agree to disagree?

[nophilip]

Now, do you think it's possible we can all agree to disagree?

NEVER! HAHAHAHAHAHAHA

In all seriousness, I think you're absolutely right. This is a concept I try to live my life by.

[Adultratedhydra]

To the people hating on SC 2 And other Activision/blizzard games.

Sometimes something is popular because its good, despite how many people say its bad (Read: Dwarf fortress)  .

But you would say that, wouldn't you. You seem to love Star Craft so much that had to reference it in your forum user name. Therefore I can determine that you'd say whatever you think would help the situation in Blizzard's favor.

This reference may be an actual Bay12/DF reference, it may not be, we may never know. But tell me this. Of all the millions of people who play it, who will actually pick up on the supposed reference?

Sometimes something is popular because its good, despite how many people say its bad (Read: Dwarf fortress)  .

If many people dislike something, by definition, doesn't that make it unpopular? By virtue of being good doesn't make something popular. Look at Beta tapes and MiniDiscs. They were good. But not popular. Look what happened to them. Star Craft 2 is popular because it is hyped up. Nothing more.

Go go misinterpreting posts? O.o

my post pointed out that people can hate something but it will always have a follorwing. Like DF. DF can easily be widely hated by many but loved by many aswell. my post was in no way intented to defend SC 2 it was simply to point out fact. you seem hell bent on attacking me for a name though, wich i honestly find hilarious that it offends you so. please remove your head from your darkest reaches and try to have a civil conversation.

[Shades]

my post pointed out that people can hate something but it will always have a follorwing. Like DF. DF can easily be widely hated by many but loved by many aswell. my post was in no way intented to defend SC 2 it was simply to point out fact. you seem hell bent on attacking me for a name though, wich i honestly find hilarious that it offends you so. please remove your head from your darkest reaches and try to have a civil conversation.

Does anyone really hate DF? I mean some people can't get pass the graphics and so dismiss it. Or passed the insane learning cliff and so forget about it but I doubt anyone really hates it.

[Krash]

Well, people can make up to most convoluted, illogical reasons for hating just about anything (including a game not to their taste made by the by far nicest of the big developers).  So why not DF too?


EDIT: Maybe it's time to steer this thread back on track or let it die?

[Tylui]

Lots of my friends hate DF for no reason. Just the way you hate SC2 for no reason.

I just got SC2 the other day, and I love it so far. I love what they did to battle.net what with the whole realID thing and all that. As far as the reference goes, I would love to say that it's a DF reference, but it doesn't really seem like it to me... Swann doesn't sound like a Dwarf, and he doesn't even have a beard. The closest thing is that it says "Bay 12" and Swann looks somewhat Dwarfy. If they have references in WoW, to me, that would make more sense, since DF is more of a fantasy setting than SciFi.