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[cephalo]

Couldn't you just que up a few jobs every couple of seasons?

So every couple of seasons:
5 wooden bolts
5 bone crossbows
5 silk socks (easier than plant industry)
5 cut gems
encrust 5 items
5 bone bolts
5 metal bolts
5 metal helms
5 metal bins
5 metal goblets
5 leather backpacks
5 wooden crafts
5 rock crafts
5 glass blocks
5 mechanisms

Queue up this times how many dwarves of each skill and hope they all get some work in and are not asleep if you have more than one of a certain craft that you don't want rusty. Every couple of seasons and if you forget, or if your dwarves are already rusty, multiply the item count by 4... Somebody explain to me how this adds fun to the game.

[dree12]

OR you could queue up 50 practice jobs on demand. That's what I do, and I feel it adds a lot more fun. Seriously, nobody was complaining before Toady added the (Rusty) symbol.

[Psieye]

2 comments:

1) Why do you care about every dwarf being in top shape? So what if you have to wait an hour of real time for a low FPS (high population) fort to get its one necessary artisan to shake off his rust? It's much less real life time than you managing refresher jobs every 2 seasons or so for everyone. Waiting an hour means you go do other stuff in that time: that fort has hundreds of dwarves to look after and probably a megaproject to work with right?

2) Mod in custom workshops to do job training without using up resources.

[Deteramot]

I think the skill rustiness is a good idea. It's a bit annoying, but it requires you to make sure your dwarfs constantly have work. (Of course, this means I will now have to learn the manager.) Anyway, from what I've heard, getting rusty in your skills is an easy problem to fix. Either a) be proactive and queue up jobs, or b) give the dwarf a small task list prior to giving him the big project.

For things like masons, you can make them build walls and things where quality modifiers don't matter much.

[Hyndis]

I build a large number of classrooms in my fortress. Each classroom has jobs on repeat, but I break apart the jobs so that each time a job is finished and the next job on the queue appears the same dwarf will not also be able to do that job. For example, blacksmithing, jewelcutting, armorsmithing, jewelsetting, weaponsmithing, bonecrafting, etc. In that order.

That means that there is a continual stream of dwarves heading to the classroom to do a bit of learning, and then they're done. Just one quick course as a refresher.

For dwarves that need serious cramming I have classrooms free, and have only a single job on repeat there so that dwarf can practice that skill indefinitely.

[cephalo]

1) Why do you care about every dwarf being in top shape? So what if you have to wait an hour of real time for a low FPS (high population) fort to get its one necessary artisan to shake off his rust? It's much less real life time than you managing refresher jobs every 2 seasons or so for everyone. Waiting an hour means you go do other stuff in that time: that fort has hundreds of dwarves to look after and probably a megaproject to work with right?

You're probably right. It's much easier to just ramp them up all at once for a specific project. I don't like stuff that you just have to remember. EDIT: the only problem there is that if its too long you can end up with permanent skill loss.

Another problem I would like to see fixed is the special case of medical dwarves. I lose guys every year almost, but only about 1/4 of those accidents are survivable and treatable. I think the medical dwarves need alot more xp per task, because my three medical dwarves are becoming peasants after 15 years.

[Psieye]

Another problem I would like to see fixed is the special case of medical dwarves. I lose guys every year almost, but only about 1/4 of those accidents are survivable and treatable. I think the medical dwarves need alot more xp per task, because my three medical dwarves are becoming peasants after 15 years.

We solved that long ago ourselves. Custom workshop, custom reactions. My medics are busy training in an anatomical theatre and reading up on manuals (don't ask where we got those books) while on stand-by.

[Teamwork]

The thing I find most irritating about the skill rust is that it turns legendary mechanics to basic dabbling ones. I'm not saying that we should get rid of rust entirely, but just have them degrade skills. I.e, a dwarf would lose 2 + 1/2 skill levels from not training in a year, not become (Rusty) after 2 seasons.

[dree12]

BUT THAT SHOULD HAPPEN!!! Why shouldn't mechanics act dabbling? The rust is as (in my experience, at least) they're dabbling for 5 items, then they jump quite quickly to legendary again (often less than 1 item/skill level). If you haven't touched a single mechanism in 8 years, you would make crap for the first five. It takes only a DF month for any non-degraded rust to wear off. Rust is too slow IMO.

[cephalo]

BUT THAT SHOULD HAPPEN!!! Why shouldn't mechanics act dabbling? The rust is as (in my experience, at least) they're dabbling for 5 items, then they jump quite quickly to legendary again (often less than 1 item/skill level). If you haven't touched a single mechanism in 8 years, you would make crap for the first five. It takes only a DF month for any non-degraded rust to wear off. Rust is too slow IMO.

That's not even realistic though. 20 years ago I was in the pizza business, and I learned alot about making pizza. These days I might make a pizza every few years. I haven't lost anything. I make a legendary pizza. No rust.

I would say that the rust in this game is over emphasized. Eight years might seem like forever when you're in your early twenties, but when you're in your 40's, it's like last week.

[cephalo]

We solved that long ago ourselves. Custom workshop, custom reactions. My medics are busy training in an anatomical theatre and reading up on manuals (don't ask where we got those books) while on stand-by.

This sounds great, can you give me a link that describes this in more detail?

[Psieye]

Go to the modding subforum and find Deon's Genesis Mod (should always be on first page as the thread's very long and still active). Grab it and take a look at the raws for the custom workshops, entity default.txt and reactions. Copy paste selectively as desired. Ask again if more detailed instructions are required.

[G-Flex]

One reason rust seems worse than it is is that it displays "rusty" for a skill when it reaches half effectiveness. Obviously, if a skill is only at level, say, 2, then it's going to look worse than it is when it rusts down to 1.


Honestly, I don't even consider having to make a half-dozen crafts a big problem if a dwarf hasn't used a skill in several years.

[unknwnsoljer]

multiply the item count by 4... Somebody explain to me how this adds fun to the game.

I would agree with cephalo on this. This is a game, and I don't see how this is fun. What if I want my legendary armorsmith to make a few more shields for my military? First I have to queue up some items I won't use before queuing up the shields? Then I have to go melt those extra items to make sure they never get used (since they're of poor quality)? Micromanaging is not fun. Micromanaging in the name of realism is still not fun.

[Psieye]

multiply the item count by 4... Somebody explain to me how this adds fun to the game.

I would agree with cephalo on this. This is a game, and I don't see how this is fun. What if I want my legendary armorsmith to make a few more shields for my military? First I have to queue up some items I won't use before queuing up the shields? Then I have to go melt those extra items to make sure they never get used (since they're of poor quality)? Micromanaging is not fun. Micromanaging in the name of realism is still not fun.

I would question why your armoursmith didn't churn out a huge pile of spares when he was at his prime. It takes micromanagement to be short on equipment compared to just sticking the job on repeat, assuming you've always had plenty of resources.