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Beard situation:

All dwarves have beards
- 133 (41.7%)
Males bearded; females beardless (default setting)
- 163 (51.1%)
Females bearded; males beardless
- 14 (4.4%)
All dwarves beardless (horrors!)
- 9 (2.8%)

Total Members Voted: 319


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Author Topic: Do your female dwarves have beards?  (Read 44069 times)

NW_Kohaku

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Re: Do your female dwarves have beards?
« Reply #60 on: July 26, 2010, 12:19:01 pm »

Here we go, dwarf female with braided sideburns (and gremlin skull totem hair decorations.  They menace with spikes ribbons of pig tail.) 

I obviously got impatient/lazy with the rest past the head, but she's supposed to be wearing plate, and if I'd bothered, you'd see she's a hammerlord (hammerlady).

Spoiler (click to show/hide)
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Urist Mcinternetuser

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Re: Do your female dwarves have beards?
« Reply #61 on: July 26, 2010, 12:40:36 pm »

I think women should have beards for their babies to hang on onto. The reason that both genders have them is because, Dwarves evolved beards during the amoebic, and therefore a-sexual days of the species. But I also think if Dwarven women don't have beards, they are more individual, showing that they don't have to be like the men. Another good thing about beardless women, is that, they can drag the men safely by their beards, and use them as pack animals for carrying goods.
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Lord Shonus

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Re: Do your female dwarves have beards?
« Reply #62 on: July 26, 2010, 01:17:14 pm »

The "female dwarfs have beards" thing came from Tolkien, like nearly everything else in fantasy settings nowadays.

Actually, it came from early editions of D&D, just like the complete inability for elves to grow beards and the massive Elven superiority complex.
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tps12

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Re: Do your female dwarves have beards?
« Reply #63 on: July 26, 2010, 02:04:23 pm »

Pretty sure the dude who invented D&D had some passing aquaintance with Tolkien's work...

In any case, lady dwarrows are bearded according to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dwarf_(Middle-earth)#Characteristics .
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Lord Shonus

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Re: Do your female dwarves have beards?
« Reply #64 on: July 26, 2010, 02:11:28 pm »

D&D was inspired by Tolkien's works, but they had to create a massive amount. As for the War of the Jewels ( the cite mentioned on that link) it was written by Christopher Tolkien reconstructing some of his father's partial remnants. It's no more Tolkien canon than than the Ring being given to Bungo, son of Bilbo. (As is the case in other volumes of the History of Middle earth series, where C. Tolkien reconstructs the evolution of The Lord of The Rings.) That's all the History of Middle Earth series is, an examination of partial, older manuscripts.
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Thundrim

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Re: Do your female dwarves have beards?
« Reply #65 on: July 26, 2010, 02:16:19 pm »

Quote
Basically, nothing much was said because of Tolkien's general gynophobia.  Especially because dwarves were fairly blunt and industrious and generally displayed masculine traits.  Wouldn't want any empowered females outside the nobility ruining one's notion of a perfect pre-industrial world...


You might as well blame Norse Mythology for not properly displaying the gender differentiation of Dwarves, Tolkien drew upon much older material, in addition to be born before most of us here. :p

As for a perfect pre-industrial society, yeah he didn't like the changes around him. That is no secret. The Dwarven way of life was not exactly perfect though. They were attacked by monsters because of their wealth all the time, and their homes fell in ruin one after another. Their realms were both mystical and practical, in a sense. Tolkien didn't tell us much at all about any Dwarf outside of Nobility at any rate, gender or no gender. So I could construct a case for the lower classes here, if I wanted to put motives into it. But would that not be a personal agenda, far removed from the storytelling the author tried to present to us? ;)

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Itnetlolor

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Re: Do your female dwarves have beards?
« Reply #66 on: July 26, 2010, 02:25:16 pm »

I like to believe dwarven females are bearded. It makes things all the more entertaining. I mean, checking out, and watching, battle reports in fortress and adventure mode, I like to visualize some of my female dwarves to have this kind of appearance:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

At least with my recent fort having champions for the first time (my first time having them as well), and a metal processing industry that's well established as well; with a handful of soldiers, surprisingly mostly female, this tends to make things entertaining in thought.

I dunno, but I like to think dwarven females are bearded.
« Last Edit: July 26, 2010, 02:28:30 pm by Itnetlolor »
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NW_Kohaku

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Re: Do your female dwarves have beards?
« Reply #67 on: July 26, 2010, 02:32:24 pm »

I can't help but note how silly it looks to have a baby swaddled in metal with a metal, spiked helmet on... Almost looks like a grenade.
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RenoFox

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Re: Do your female dwarves have beards?
« Reply #68 on: July 26, 2010, 02:35:16 pm »

Beardless, and I applaud Toady for making that the default setting. While beards are a major part of dwarven culture it shouldn't mean their females are less feminine. Short and bulky, but beards are purely masculine and should grow only with the Y-chromosome when the genetics get implemented.

Itnetlolor

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Re: Do your female dwarves have beards?
« Reply #69 on: July 26, 2010, 02:43:13 pm »

I can't help but note how silly it looks to have a baby swaddled in metal with a metal, spiked helmet on... Almost looks like a grenade.
Considering in the 40d version, you (or your dwarven mothers) can throw a baby at a goblin, and make it explode in gore; we might as well regard babies as grenades.

Shrugging Khan

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Re: Do your female dwarves have beards?
« Reply #70 on: July 26, 2010, 02:57:54 pm »

Beardless, and I applaud Toady for making that the default setting. While beards are a major part of dwarven culture it shouldn't mean their females are less feminine. Short and bulky, but beards are purely masculine and should grow only with the Y-chromosome when the genetics get implemented.
They should only grow with the Testosterone Hormone (or whatever its dwarven equivalent may be), which in turn should vary between the members of both genders.
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strongrudder

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Re: Do your female dwarves have beards?
« Reply #71 on: July 26, 2010, 04:10:54 pm »

^ The really interesting thing would be (if beards work roughly the way they do for people) how dwarven society would view bearded ladies. We tend to be freaked out by women with facial hair, but something tells me dwarves would think it was awesome.
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USEC_OFFICER

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Re: Do your female dwarves have beards?
« Reply #72 on: July 26, 2010, 04:12:34 pm »

Beardless, and I applaud Toady for making that the default setting. While beards are a major part of dwarven culture it shouldn't mean their females are less feminine. Short and bulky, but beards are purely masculine and should grow only with the Y-chromosome when the genetics get implemented.
They should only grow with the Testosterone Hormone (or whatever its dwarven equivalent may be), which in turn should vary between the members of both genders.

In that case, dwarven women would have beards. (Have you seen some of the shit they do?)
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Africa

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Re: Do your female dwarves have beards?
« Reply #73 on: July 26, 2010, 04:21:46 pm »

I think there's way too many differences between dwarves and neandertals to use them as models. Neandertals are practically human; hell they have "human" in their genus name they probably interbred with us. Dwarves are definitely further off...maybe still in the same genus, but it'd be pushing it. In any case, if there were a significant advantage to them all having beards, I don't think growing hair on your face when you've already got it on lots of other body parts is something that would take so long to evolve. It's certainly not an eye.

Of course, all these rambly evolutionary arguments are still influenced by the fact that I'm a strong ladybeard partisan.

Also, between the androgynous nature of dwarves in DF, and having read Discworld at a young age, I have enough reason to support beards, but that picture of the crossbow-mom pretty much clinches it. And is probably a sufficient cause in itself.

Edit: Actually, dwarves would probably be in the same genus, as they're also as intelligent as humans. Then again, they're probably intelligent in a different way - I think the way their minds work would be, while similar in some ways, fundamentally alien in other ways. The question is, if a less-intelligent creature like Homo Habilis is closer to us than an equally but differently intelligent creature like a dwarf? If not, dwarves would be "homo beardmagmus" or what have you.
« Last Edit: July 26, 2010, 04:24:08 pm by Africa »
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NW_Kohaku

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Re: Do your female dwarves have beards?
« Reply #74 on: July 26, 2010, 04:22:00 pm »

^ The really interesting thing would be (if beards work roughly the way they do for people) how dwarven society would view bearded ladies. We tend to be freaked out by women with facial hair, but something tells me dwarves would think it was awesome.

I am somehow getting the impression that nobody read my post on beards as mating props (or the link I posted)...

... or for that matter, looked at the pretty picture I drew all by myself.
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Personally, I like [DF] because after climbing the damned learning cliff, I'm too elitist to consider not liking it.
"And no Frankenstein-esque body part stitching?"
"Not yet"

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