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Author Topic: Grumble, grumble, goblins, grumble, no decent military, grumble.  (Read 1414 times)

eataTREE

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So I've lost every single fortress I've run in DF2010 to goblin invasion in year 3 or 4.

Thus far I haven't been able to field a functioning military. Training has been broken thus far, so I have an army of raw recruits that often forgets to go pick up weapons and armor before trying to engage the gobbos. This does not work out well. My green dwarven recruits do a little better if the goblins have to walk across a field of traps first, but it is difficult to build enough traps in time, and if another wave of goblins should arrive before my mechanics have managed to reset them, well...

What have you all been doing to defend your mountain halls? Is there a way to make the military less useless (before the next release, anyway)?
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spooq

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Re: Grumble, grumble, goblins, grumble, no decent military, grumble.
« Reply #1 on: July 23, 2010, 05:17:47 am »

What have you all been doing to defend your mountain halls?

Build a moat, pull up the drawbridge, and keep doing whatever I was doing while watching migrants and traders fight the goblins for my amusement. I like to build a wall inside the moat too, so I can still farm outside easily.

Sometimes I catch goblins in cagetraps. Usually I die when the timing of raising/lowering drawbridges and portcullises gets out of whack. The practical solution is to build a long tunnel of cagetraps, to make the timing more forgiving, but I don't like that idea. I guess I need to split my safe farming areas from my unsafe trading areas, and just put the traps in the trading area.
« Last Edit: July 23, 2010, 05:24:37 am by spooq »
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Heavenfall

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Re: Grumble, grumble, goblins, grumble, no decent military, grumble.
« Reply #2 on: July 23, 2010, 07:28:30 am »

Huge edit: THis is for 31.10.

I use the military. I am really not having such big problems. At the 2nd immigration wave (the one that brings you up to ~40 pop) I usually start training 10 with iron axes. This is a short guide to off-duty training.

TL:DR; don't touch the whole on-duty/inactive part of the military screen. Dwarves will train fine on their own, using individual combat drills.

Steps to produce a working military.
1. Mentally mark 10 dwarves to be in the military, either through nicknames or profession (for example, Military1). This makes it easier to assign them later on. Make sure noone has any labour assigned to them.
2. Make a new uniform in the military screen. Make it 1 weapon only (no armor yet).
3. Make a new military squad. Select the uniform you made, as you create the squad.
4. Leave the squad inactive
5. Build an armor stand or a weapon rack (1 is sufficient). Make it an armory. Q over the armory, and select your squad to Train there. Each squad needs an armory.
6. Dwarves with nothing to do will now go for personal combat drilling. However, not all dwarves are cut out to do this. Usually its about 8 out of every 10 that will take the initiative to do individual combat drills. Remove the others from the squad. Replace with new ones. Note that they do not instantly gain the idea to go training - however, if, after a couple of minutes, you can find them at one of your meeting places (jail, dining room, zoo, statue garden) then they probably will never train on their own.

That's it. You've now got them training. But what about when we want to upgrade their equipment?
7. (F)ree up the armory. Disband the squad. Make a new uniform with all the right equipment. Make a new squad. Assign dwarves. Assign squad to armory.

Be warned. Dwarves that do individual combat drills when off-duty and nothing else to do are fiercely loyal to their chosen pastime profession. They'll spend almost all their time training, which means they'll have very little spare time to witness the wonders of your fortress and they are therefore missing out on lots of happy thoughts.

You should also be aware that individual drills only train their main weapon, and dodge to about 1/6th of the efficiency of their weapon skill. Therefore, if you want to train shield use, you'll have to make the squad with a shield and without any weapon.

Pro-tip: Build the armory outdoors. That way, your dwarves will not get any negative thoughts for sunlight.

When the time for action comes, simply send your military towards the enemy using the (M)ove command. The dwarves will automatically switch to "on-duty". As soon as the enemy is dead, switch them to off-duty by removing their orders. It is very likely that they will suffer several negative thoughts, like "seen death", "was taken off-duty recently". However, this is not a problem. They will grumble, but they won't riot. Watch out for zombies leaking miasma though (lots of extra unhappiness there).

Pro-tip 2: As your dwarves reach legendary +5, which will happen after about 4-5 years (less, depending on how often they are fighting real enemies, and how little they spend in hospital beds) either switch them to train shield use, or take them off individual drills by removing the armory. This will free them up for experiencing all the joys of your fortress, and it will free them up for performing other tasks, such as hauling.

Edit: Also note that dwarves will take newly made gear if its better than what they have. If you are making lots of new gear in a very short time, this can create a loop where one dwarf runs and picks up a piece, placing his old piece in the stockpile. The next dwarf now sees that piece that the previous dwarf left, and goes to pick that up. The next dwarf sees the piece the previous one left. With 8+ armor pieces and weapons for each dwarf, if you have multiple squads, they can literally spend years doing nothing but switching gear. To avoid this, simply disband all squads and free the armory. All freed squads will dump all their items. Now make a new squad, and that squad will take all the best gear. Then the next squad, and so on. This is also an effective way to make sure all your masterwork gear ends up in one squad.

Pro-tip 3: I usually start my 2nd squad out with shields first, thinking long-term. A legendary +5 shielddwarf will block every attack made against him from the front. After the shieldtraining is done, I assign weapons to them. Note that this squad will most likely never see combat until they are shield/weapon legendary +, as they are too precious to waste, and deaths still happen.

TL:DR; don't touch the whole on-duty/inactive part of the military screen. Dwarves will train fine on their own, using individual combat drills.
« Last Edit: July 23, 2010, 07:42:37 am by Heavenfall »
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Shrugging Khan

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Re: Grumble, grumble, goblins, grumble, no decent military, grumble.
« Reply #3 on: July 23, 2010, 08:09:52 am »

My military just got screwed over by a triple ambush. A dozen of goblins ambushing my hunters, the incoming caravan, and then my rescue party. And as it turns out: Half my military dwarves were UNARMED because the other half decided to dual-wield.

Oh hooray.
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spooq

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Re: Grumble, grumble, goblins, grumble, no decent military, grumble.
« Reply #4 on: July 23, 2010, 08:16:08 am »

A lot of the gear-related problems should be about to get a lot better with 31.11.
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Shrugging Khan

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Re: Grumble, grumble, goblins, grumble, no decent military, grumble.
« Reply #5 on: July 23, 2010, 08:39:57 am »

Yeeeeeea...and it's just been released! HUZZAH!
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I'm actually quite nice IRL, but you people have to pay the price for that.

Now stop being distracted by the rudeness, quit your accusations of trollery, and start arguing like real men!

stormyseasons

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Re: Grumble, grumble, goblins, grumble, no decent military, grumble.
« Reply #6 on: July 23, 2010, 10:37:07 am »

drawbridge at entrance connected to a lever near my meeting hall. farm areas all underground, via greenhouse method in first soil layer for aboveground crops. get enough stored up, have a burrow including the lever but far away from the entrance for siege notices, and simply wait them out unless I feel like giving my militia something to do.
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Lord Shonus

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Re: Grumble, grumble, goblins, grumble, no decent military, grumble.
« Reply #7 on: July 23, 2010, 11:05:06 am »

I've been using pure military since 31.01, with very, very few problems.
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Hokan

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Re: Grumble, grumble, goblins, grumble, no decent military, grumble.
« Reply #8 on: July 23, 2010, 12:09:59 pm »

Military is hardly useless, and marksdwarves are usable again, so it's even better.
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JoystickHero

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Re: Grumble, grumble, goblins, grumble, no decent military, grumble.
« Reply #9 on: July 23, 2010, 12:52:13 pm »

I just start with lots of dogs, and build a trap-maze.

And I mean LOTS of dogs. Usually, I start with at least ten puppies of each gender, so that by the time I'm worrying about sieges, I've harnessed an intentional dogsplosion, while still having enough that I can butcher the small weak ones before they pass on their crappy genes. Also, they are delicious, and provide plenty of leather and bone.

I think there's a thread somewhere around here about breeding your dogs for combat duty. You should look at that, too.
« Last Edit: July 23, 2010, 12:54:31 pm by JoystickHero »
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Akura

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Re: Grumble, grumble, goblins, grumble, no decent military, grumble.
« Reply #10 on: July 23, 2010, 12:58:24 pm »

Strange. I've never had problems with the military, using .08. I've got 4(3 full) squads training on a single weapon rack, the three full ones armed properly with iron axes and iron mail shirts, tearing apart most everything they fought with little injury(except a bronze colossus that kept glancing off blows, but at the same time the colossus couldn't hit them. It crashed during the fight). The only problem is that they keep reporting a pig tail sock as being armored with a metal boot and other such mismatches. And even then, the arsenal dwarf fixes that when proper gear is available.
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JoystickHero

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Re: Grumble, grumble, goblins, grumble, no decent military, grumble.
« Reply #11 on: July 23, 2010, 01:42:42 pm »

Strange. I've never had problems with the military, using .08. I've got 4(3 full) squads training on a single weapon rack, the three full ones armed properly with iron axes and iron mail shirts, tearing apart most everything they fought with little injury(except a bronze colossus that kept glancing off blows, but at the same time the colossus couldn't hit them. It crashed during the fight). The only problem is that they keep reporting a pig tail sock as being armored with a metal boot and other such mismatches. And even then, the arsenal dwarf fixes that when proper gear is available.
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piesquared

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Re: Grumble, grumble, goblins, grumble, no decent military, grumble.
« Reply #12 on: July 23, 2010, 01:44:10 pm »

Personally I'm in the "build a big wall, and a drawbridge" crowd. Also, editing the raws so they stop with the annoying ambushes. And a significant military to deal with goblins and ogre that get through anyway. And weapon traps. And cage traps. And a water lava an obsidian trap.

There's no kill like overkill.
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Solace

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Re: Grumble, grumble, goblins, grumble, no decent military, grumble.
« Reply #13 on: July 23, 2010, 02:55:43 pm »

I recently came up with a very simple and very effective design. Make a row of weapon traps with anything you'd like, even a single wooden sword. Flank this row on both sides with a deepish pit. As soon as the goblins dodge away from the weapon traps, they have a 3 to 1 chance of falling into the pit and getting injured based on the depth of the pit. Chaining dogs instead of traps also works, if you have a lot of dogs and you're not fighting goblin marksmen.

So far I chased off 3 goblin ambushes with this setup; the pit was only 2z deep and they just climbed out the back side and left after being sufficiently injured. My pit is now 4z deep, and I'm working on extending the length of the trap section and putting the exit into the middle of it, so that the goblins will jump off again regardless if they want to enter or leave.

EDIT: Although kobold ambush parties will still ignore your traps.
« Last Edit: July 23, 2010, 03:42:41 pm by Solace »
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