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[Neonivek]

... so why hasn't Prince Zuko popped up yet?

His style of two blades, usually working in tandem, seemed reasonable for chopping and slicing enemies.

it's out of dwarf style of course, but still.

Is it sufficient/suitable for dispatching unarmoured wizards?

Avatar combined martial arts with what could be the equal of "Magic". Which according to Toady, who can at anytime change his mind, when magic goes it magical martial arts will be there around the same time.

[Krisnack]

While it's pretty much been established that dual wielding is almost useless for dwarves, what about creatures with more then two arms? I'm thinking of having a having a simple formula of (weapons allowed) = (arms/2).

[NW_Kohaku]

While it's pretty much been established that dual wielding is almost useless for dwarves, what about creatures with more then two arms? I'm thinking of having a having a simple formula of (weapons allowed) = (arms/2).

If you're agreeing with the notion that it is generally ineffective for someone with two hands to weild two weapons, why would it be more effective if they had some extra hands not doing anything, just to meet some ratio?

Unless it were some weapon that did not have the issues of balance that melee weapons do (like crossbows or guns), it would face exactly the same problem.  (Plus, why not quadruple-hand that giant maul, and REALLY make paste out of some bones?)

Even with guns, you run into the same problem of not being able to look down the sights of every weapon, and general difficulty of coordinating the aim of an arbitrary number of weapons (excluding, perhaps something like a hydra with many arms, where there are seperate independently acting brains, eyes, and hands, although we're getting into the really bizzare physiologies at that point...)

[Neonivek]

Actually even in nature there are creatures with more then one weapon essentially Kohaku such as Scorpians (3) or Octopuses [8] or Lions (4) or cats (4). In fact biting is essentially done with Two halves of one whole. All of them are capable of using all of them at once and do so.

Then you also have to factor in that not all blows have the be the most powerful blow to be the most effective blow possible.

For example if I lunged at someone with all my strength with a knife I would do just as much damage to them as if I simple used my arms. I cannot do more then 100% and neither can monsters.

[NW_Kohaku]

Actually even in nature there are creatures with more then one weapon essentially Kohaku such as Scorpians (3) or Octopuses [8] or Lions (4) or cats (4). In fact biting is essentially done with Two halves of one whole. All of them are capable of using all of them at once and do so.

*sigh* OK, I have no idea why I'm still doing this, but...

No. 

Scorpions do not reach out pinching and stabbing all at once in a single lunge.  They typically just hold off attackers with their claws before trying to sting them.

Octopi do not use their tentacles as "weapons", they use them to pull things apart by yanking on it in multiple different directions - this wouldn't be an "eight simultanious attacks", it's using all its appendages in one action.

Cats (big or small) do not rely upon "four simultanius attacks with their claws".  They mostly rely upon their jaws to grab onto the enemy, and drag them down and go for the jugular, using their claws only to help grapple.  If they are not grappling, and are using their claws, they are probably making a one-pawed swipe.  If they are grappling and are using their claws, it is typically an alternating rear-leg kick (raking), which is, again, alternating.

For
Then you also have to factor in that not all blows have the be the most powerful blow to be the most effective blow possible.

example if I lunged at someone with all my strength with a knife I would do just as much damage to them as if I simple used my arms. I cannot do more then 100% and neither can monsters.

I'm actually very confused as to if this even is supposed to have a meaning, but I'll take my best guess and assume that what you are saying is that there is the same momentum in a punch as there is in a stab with a knife. 

The (really, really obvious) problem with that is that, again, the amount of force generated in the impact may be the same, but the area that said force is applied over is much, much narrower when you use a knife, ensuring that a knife will penetrate the body, while a punch will simply bruise, because the specific area taking the blow will be unable to distribute the pressure applied upon it.

[Neonivek]

Scorpions do not reach out pinching and stabbing all at once in a single lunge.  They typically just hold off attackers with their claws before trying to sting them.

They are using all three of their weapons. Also Scorpians have been known to grab their opponents and then sting them.

Cats (big or small) do not rely upon "four simultanius attacks with their claws".

Yet they use and have them. They grab with the two front appendeges and then rake with the other two. So it is essentially using 4 weapons. (actually 5 I forgot the Jaw)

Plus alternating is again one of the virtues of multiple weapons.

I'm actually very confused as to if this even is supposed to have a meaning, but I'll take my best guess and assume that what you are saying is that there is the same momentum in a punch as there is in a stab with a knife

Ohh no not that. I am saying that once you do as much damage with an attack then is possible any additional force is pointless or lost.

If I stuck a knife entirely inside someone then no matter how much force I add it won't do anymore damage to them unless I pound my fist right through their body... but if I could do that then the knife wouldn't matter.

Once an attack is 100% effective nothing can improve it.

Also I always have meaning... even if it isn't apperant to anyone... which is unfortunately rather common.

[NW_Kohaku]

Plus alternating is again one of the virtues of multiple weapons.

Please go back to the very beginning of this thread, and re-read what everyone else has been saying against dual-weilding...

It's either that you alternate your attacks, which means that you are only attacking with one weapon every turn, and you just pick which weapon you are attacking with for that turn, which means that dual-weilding is exactly the same as using any single-handed weapon, except you can choose to use a different weapon on a different turn...

... or you are talking about doing some sort of absurd "fall forward on your enemy with both weapons out" attack so that you can "attack twice in one turn". 

If you are alternating attacks, then you are talking about something entirely different from Dual Weilding.

[Josephus]

Cats only go for the jugular when they're hunting; a fight with another cat involves the holding n' raking that Neonivek mentioned.

How about weapons like punching daggers, which can plausibly be dual-wielded? Arguably, this also relies on alternating strikes, of course.

[Neonivek]

If you are alternating attacks, then you are talking about something entirely different from Dual Weilding

On the contrary it is part of dual weilding. Very few weapons have the blessing of Alteration without weakness.

Plus if you use both weapons at once and only one blow is blocked then you deal more force of damage then a single attack that is blocked with a single strike.

[NW_Kohaku]

If you are alternating attacks, then you are talking about something entirely different from Dual Weilding

On the contrary it is part of dual weilding. Very few weapons have the blessing of Alteration without weakness.

No really, this was at the very start of the whole thread...

And how would dual weilding work?  If it's just another attack, (like choosing between grappling with the left hand or right hand when unarmed) it wouldn't be much help, since you can only do one attack (or action of any sort) per turn.  It would just be "I attack with my right hand this time... now my left!".  Maybe it would make sense if you had, say, a piercing weapon and a bludgeoning weapon, so that you could choose attack types, but otherwise...

If you want to say "both hands attack at the same time, and act just like normal attacks with full damage", well, then, you've just made a munchkin power.

[Josephus]

Hum, a dual-strike with swords would very definitely lose the power of a single handed strike. Why? Because a lot of that power is in the twist of the body, and unless you're some kind of devil from hell, there's no way you can twist your body in such a way as to apply equal force with both arms.

The same goes for thrusts. Driven in a straight line from the pushing leg through the hip to the shoulder and out through the sword.

EDIT: PEOPLE ARE IGNORING ME

[Neonivek]

And how would dual weilding work?  If it's just another attack, (like choosing between grappling with the left hand or right hand when unarmed) it wouldn't be much help, since you can only do one attack (or action of any sort) per turn.  It would just be "I attack with my right hand this time... now my left!".  Maybe it would make sense if you had, say, a piercing weapon and a bludgeoning weapon, so that you could choose attack types, but otherwise

The answer to this is simple

"Turns?"

I fully expect Rapiers to get more attacks in a short amount of time then a battle axe.

[Pilsu]

Not a whole lot more unless you're just poking the target, barely breaking the skin. Range isn't modeled either.


I think you're wasting your breath Kohaku. He just wants to play Drizzt, nothing will sway him at this point.

[Medicine Man]

Scorpions do not reach out pinching and stabbing all at once in a single lunge.  They typically just hold off attackers with their claws before trying to sting them.

They are using all three of their weapons. Also Scorpians have been known to grab their opponents and then sting them.

Cats (big or small) do not rely upon "four simultanius attacks with their claws".

Yet they use and have them. They grab with the two front appendeges and then rake with the other two. So it is essentially using 4 weapons. (actually 5 I forgot the Jaw)

Plus alternating is again one of the virtues of multiple weapons.

I'm actually very confused as to if this even is supposed to have a meaning, but I'll take my best guess and assume that what you are saying is that there is the same momentum in a punch as there is in a stab with a knife

Ohh no not that. I am saying that once you do as much damage with an attack then is possible any additional force is pointless or lost.

If I stuck a knife entirely inside someone then no matter how much force I add it won't do anymore damage to them unless I pound my fist right through their body... but if I could do that then the knife wouldn't matter.

Once an attack is 100% effective nothing can improve it.

Also I always have meaning... even if it isn't apperant to anyone... which is unfortunately rather common.

*Facepalm* Scorpions and cats are using their natural attacks (parts of their body) so of course it is effective,they are not holding heavy blades and swinging them both and it is SCORPION not scorpian.

[Josephus]

That's true, but currently the game has no functionality for attacks of that sort.