Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

Male

265 (71.2%)

Female

22 (5.9%)

Dwarf Male

39 (10.5%)

Dwarf Female

4 (1.1%)

Goblin

42 (11.3%)

Total Members Voted: 372

Voting closed: October 29, 2010, 10:24:03 am

[Kagus]

...This reminds me of why I'm both attracted to and repulsed by politics. I find the way it works to be fascinating, and yet the pointless bickering eventually makes me want to throw my TV at the wall.

I've never been particularly interested in politics.  Having spent most of my life in the U.S., my interpretation of it is filled with blatant posturing, petty stickthrowing and overall childish behaviour.  The really good politicians don't even have personal beliefs, they just say and do whatever will get them elected, and then they spend their term planning how to get re-elected.

Philosophy, on the other hand, is more my style.  Pointlessly discussing anything and everything for the fun of it.  Of course, I've always liked a good argument...   As I'm sure becomes clear now and again.

[NW_Kohaku]

...This reminds me of why I'm both attracted to and repulsed by politics. I find the way it works to be fascinating, and yet the pointless bickering eventually makes me want to throw my TV at the wall.

Well, you're missing a few other important parts: remember that these people are determining the fate of the world with their childish antics, and that it is actually the active goal of some of them to make nobody want to listen to politics, because that means less people vote, and the less people who vote, the more the vote of the crazies (who always vote) counts.  As such, it's partially your responsibility to the world to oppose the crazies.

THEN, instead of throwing the TV through the wall, you can instead just do what I do when watching the news, and curl into a ball and cry.

[Urist McArtStudent]

Didn't mean to cause a flame war, guys. And I didn't mean to claim I'm Everywoman either

Maybe I was too "bitter" in my previous post, but it does annoy me to see women going "oh tee hee I need a big strong man to show me how to send an email". It's dishonest and I feel they're letting the side down. We were supposed to have left that behind in the 1950s. I know those girls aren't stupid, I'd just like them to believe it's okay to be good at technical things. That's all.

On that note, take a look at "boy toys" and "girl toys" sometime. It's remarkable how many toys marketed to boys are all about building or doing cool stuff with them - meccano, bionicle, action man, while almost everything for girls is "you can dress it up and maybe play house with it or if you're really lucky pretend you're a princess with it". In mainstream gaming, there are boy games, which is basically everything, and then there are specific girl games, which is er... maybe Cooking Mama, Barbie and those pony sims that clog the DS shelves in Gamestop? That may be another reason why there's such a dearth of girls in gaming - the games that are actually marketed to them are incredibly unappealing.



...Anyway, back to Dwarf Fortress...

[Kagus]

I believe I've heard that those Barbie games are awesome when you're stoned.  I actually played part of some "Perfect Princess Paradise" or whatnot that was in some mishmash of old games on a friend's computer.

That had to be one of the most frustrating game experiences I have ever endured.  There's something to be said of a person who ragequit Barbie.

[Eviltane01]

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

I believe I've heard that those Barbie games are awesome when you're stoned.  I actually played part of some "Perfect Princess Paradise" or whatnot that was in some mishmash of old games on a friend's computer.

That had to be one of the most frustrating game experiences I have ever endured.  There's something to be said of a person who ragequit Barbie.

i just lolled.


There are so many posts I want to reply to here but that will have to wait till I get off of work and hopefully have some time to type:D

[Lalandrathon]

On that note, take a look at "boy toys" and "girl toys" sometime. It's remarkable how many toys marketed to boys are all about building or doing cool stuff with them - meccano, bionicle, action man, while almost everything for girls is "you can dress it up and maybe play house with it or if you're really lucky pretend you're a princess with it".

Dude, obviously someone needs to make a toy where you can build stuff with it *and* dress people up. Like legos only with larger scale characters and customizable clothes. It would be the most awesome toy ever! You could sell it to everybody! Make money and promote egalitarianism!

[darkrider2]

On that note, take a look at "boy toys" and "girl toys" sometime. It's remarkable how many toys marketed to boys are all about building or doing cool stuff with them - meccano, bionicle, action man, while almost everything for girls is "you can dress it up and maybe play house with it or if you're really lucky pretend you're a princess with it".

Yeah smbc pointed this out to me. I found it very intriguing. Actually I might just pull the k'nex back out of the closet for old times sake... thanks a lot.

[NW_Kohaku]

All I can do in response to this is to post a link to a wonderful little webcomic, and a relevant strip:

http://www.somethingpositive.net/sp05282008.shtml

[Noble Digger]

You are faking interest in someone.  Not only are you lying to them by pretending to be interested, you're lying to yourself by making such an effort to be around someone you don't actually like talking to.  You're right, that does sicken me. 

Now I'm going to have to scrape vomit off the side of this tower for the rest of the week.

One thing is for sure. If I chose to greet this world with 100% honesty at all times and never pretend anything for the sake of others, I'd be in prison. I think a little make-believe is helpful to our ability to coexist as a society.

Is it Eurasia or Eastasia we're fighting with now, brother?

When I used the term "Ivory Tower" I didn't intend to imply that you had any actual superiority over anyone else--it's basically a derogatory reference, sir. In my experience it refers to the condition created when someone decides to intellectually isolate himself from truths which are inconvenient to the formation of a perspective which only includes ideas that contribute to the individual's belief in his picture of an ideal world. The ideal world, of course, doesn't exist, in particular because we each live a subjective life with subjective experiences and perspectives on those experiences. I imagine that your ideal world would reek, to me. In any case, Wikipedia's definition says about Ivory Tower:

"From the 19th century it has been used to designate a world or atmosphere where intellectuals engage in pursuits that are disconnected from the practical concerns of everyday life. As such, it usually carries pejorative connotations of a wilful disconnect from the everyday world."

That definition sums it up a bit better than my verbal diarrhea. Maybe you're one of those selective individuals who picks and chooses who's cool enough to be worth your time and ignores emails and snubs the rest, perhaps you have that luxury. By your reasoning, I shouldn't be friends with most of my friends, even now. In any case, you word it as "faking an interest", and I've long said that the best way to learn about a person is to see how they describe the actions of others. I would never describe my actions that way, nor would I describe the same actions taken by another person in that way.

You are faking interest in someone.  Not only are you lying to them by pretending to be interested, you're lying to yourself by making such an effort to be around someone you don't actually like talking to.  You're right, that does sicken me.

I would be lonely and friendless if I behaved as your vomit suggests I should behave, because I don't often meet people that make me say "Wow! You're incredible! I need you in my life! Can we be pals?" I might not have any friends at all if I didn't make an effort to understand other people and make a place for them in my life, as my natural inclination is NOT to seek out social relationships much at all. I often perceive other people as having very low standards when it comes to showing respect to one another, and that's something I find very important. Not pulling at other peoples' loose ends, not seeking to create unhappiness. People who can't control themselves in that regard are the only ones I really consider bad enough to actively avoid.

Most of my current friends are people I would never have met if not for numerous convenient happenstances. From the outside, with my lenses (figurative lenses, I don't use vision correction), those people looked pretty shitty. But they're my friends now, because each time, I was in a situation where I had to choose to either make an effort to speak to them and get along, or stare at the walls and close myself off and pass the time in solitude. I ended up learning that we had a lot more in common than I thought and that most of the prickly stuff was just part of the outward facade. That's the case for most people I've ever come to like! We have a great big planet full of people who are very different, on the inside especially, and we don't understand one another very well "on average" but with a little work, sometimes work that goes uphill against the self's natural inclinations or habits, we can learn better ways and adopt those ways and live better, less-lonely lives. It's worth doing, imho.

You say this is a lie, to myself and everyone else. That's stone-cold-fucking-retarded if you ask me. If I followed your advice I would not make a positive difference in anyone else's life, and I'd probably be on an internet forum somewhere trolling instead.

When you talk about "the core person" that I'm supposedly lying to, I want to slap you upside the head with the nature-versus-nurture debate. Who raised you, and how much of "who you are" was put there by them? Is it supposed to be genetic, this "who you are?" As far as I'm concerned, after a fashion, "you" are the choices that you make. I don't often meet people that I naturally like, so now and then I choose to make an effort to understand someone I might not otherwise like, and end up becoming their friend. Am I wrong, brother? In your ivory tower, I suppose I am, but I don't live there, brother.

[Noble Digger]

Also, because it's somewhat relevant. If I were The Most Interesting Man in the World, I would never have to fake an interest in anyone.

http://www.eatmedaily.com/2009/06/dos-equis-ad-campaign-the-most-interesting-man-in-the-world-video/

[strongrudder]

Well, you're missing a few other important parts: remember that these people are determining the fate of the world with their childish antics, and that it is actually the active goal of some of them to make nobody want to listen to politics, because that means less people vote, and the less people who vote, the more the vote of the crazies (who always vote) counts.  As such, it's partially your responsibility to the world to oppose the crazies.

THEN, instead of throwing the TV through the wall, you can instead just do what I do when watching the news, and curl into a ball and cry.

That's why I cram most of my researching and politics-following into the months of the year where politicians are gunning to be elected. Then after I do my duty and vote, I steer clear of the whole mess for a bit (go back to watching the news and reading editorials casually) until it's time to study up again. Gotta give the mind and soul a little time to heal.

As for the topic at hand:
Whoo, internet backdraft. I personally think that nature and nurture both have a say in how a given person thinks and acts, which begs some interesting questions about what gender does and doesn't affect. But I don't think I'll elaborate too much - while I enjoy debate, I get the feeling that some are taking this discussion too personally... and it's likely not what the topic was created for. :/

[Kagus]

I am well aware that your tower statement was both derogatory and metaphorical.  I did not assume you to be the kind of person who imagines that many people still live in castle keeps.  My vomit remark was made to acknowledge your negative opinion of me, and to mock it by turning it into absurd comedy.  As this is not the first time you have misunderstood me on such a point, I shall refrain from using sarcasm or dry wit from now on.


I am also not a particularly sociable or outgoing person.  Indeed, I have very few friends.  I am not afraid nor ashamed to admit that however; as I deeply cherish, respect and enjoy each one of them. 

For most of them, our acquaintance began with my creating some fairly negative first impressions of them.  As we were forced to work and spend time together, I grew to know them better as a matter of course.  Others I met simply because I was trying to socialize.  Yes, it is quite possible that I would never have gotten to know them under different circumstances, but that's just how life is.

Not once, in any situation, did I feign interest.  Not once, in any situation, did I pretend to be someone or something I was not.  It is blunt, and it has made me a fair share of enemies along the way.  If that's how they feel when confronted with someone like me, then I quite frankly want nothing to do with them.  I see nothing wrong with this.


You go on to talk about getting past a prickly facade, and getting to know and understand the person beneath it (themes which haven't been particularly clear in your previous posts).  I could hardly agree more.  However, I do not see how or why pretending to like something you don't should factor into this.  Regardless of how reserved or even standoffish a person may be under first acquaintances, aspects of who they are underneath will shine through.  Latch onto those, and don't bother with the pretenses.

It is apparent that we both misunderstand each other to some degree.  What I had garnered from your posts was that you would make an appearance of liking someone even though you didn't, and then just get used to it.   Like a habit.  Your earlier comment about relationships makes it sound as though you aren't even listening to them, and that later on you only get interested in what she's saying because she's your girlfriend, so her activities reflect on you.  I'm not saying that this was your intended point, because it certainly doesn't sound like that now, I'm just saying that that's the impression I got from what you had written.


As for the mention of a core personality, I suppose my beliefs have been altered by the writings of Dr. Taylor Hartman, who suggests that while we do take on different characteristics over the course of our lives, we are indeed born with an original personality and set of life goals that remains with us throughout.

I'm not happy with the general tone this disagreement has taken on, and I do wish we could settle this peaceably.  If necessary, as I suspect it is, we can agree to disagree and be done with it.  We obviously have differing viewpoints, and it's clear that our style of presenting our arguments is utterly ineffectual at instilling anything other than defensiveness in the other party.  And no, that was not meant as some underhanded remark about you, I am equally if not more guilty of lashing out as you are.


One final comment, however...

imho.

Don't do this, please.  It invalidates anything that comes before it.

[Craftling]

Most of the time I just allow people to assume I'm a guy, but when I get fed up with that I just go on and say 'hey, girl here'.

I play Warcraft III (Alot) and I basicly assume that every person on bnet is a male.
And someone said something about a pink interferance? Now I want it 

[Noble Digger]

I remain peaceable and I like you. <3 If you've read more than 3 or 5 of my posts, as you seem to have done, you'll see that you and I fit very similar descriptions. No, I don't go off an effusively pretend to like people for my own benefit. It's just that if someone else seeks out my friendship, I may endure it and give it a try despite what my initial reactions may be. I don't think you're really confused on any of my points, based on reading this most recent of yours.

I re-iterate: I'm not angry with anyone! "Stone-cold-fucking-retarded", let's just call that a very forthright assessment of my perception of your manner of thinking, in contrast to my "usual", "friendly" manner, I suppose. (Today I like putting words in quotations, that's about as far as I like to go with sarcasm, it's just such a tired, sickly beaten dog thanks to the internet and forums in general)

While it's perfectly possible to infer tone and verbal irony from text based on context, I find that most of the time doing so ends up to be in error. I more meant that you seemed to be enjoying the idea of the Ivory Tower when I intended that to be an unflattering image. If you actually lived in an Ivory Tower, THEN I might make an effusive effort to befriend you (and steal your tower)

[Kagus]

Indeed, I've heard it said that much can be deduced of a man based on how he describes others.