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[Kagus]

That was the first thing I noticed when I picked it up (actually, I wasn't even the one who picked it up, my mom got it for me several years ago).  Even in my younger state, I was wondering if anyone else had noticed that this guy was a ponce.

Then I started reading it.  I tried, you know?  I really tried.  I got as far as the witch/werecat/whatever the hell she is and then just left the book somewhere.  The final droplet of my interest had dribbled away, and even though I was barely older than the fellow when he had first written it,I just couldn't bring myself to read another word.


Of course, I also happen to consider the Wheel of Time books to be complete unoriginal rubbish.  Take that as you will.

[Josephus]

Man, I couldn't even get through the first hundred pages of the Sword of Shannara. I was mentally screaming "YOU RIPPED OFF TOLKIEN AND DIDN'T EVEN BOTHER CHANGING THE CHARACTERS AROUND, YOU FUCKING JACKASS" for the whole time. And then I got to the "dwarves are evolutionary offshoots of men" thing and I just threw the book across the room. With great force.

When Jack Vance does magitech, it's cool. When Terry Brooks did it, it was lousy.

I suppose I should give him a second chance, but... meh.

[sonerohi]

I threw the Wheel of Time book I tried out of my window. Well, technically I uppercutted it off the windowsill.

[Acanthus117]

The books were shit, the movies were shit.

I realized soon after finishing the third book (My brother loves it, and I decided to read it after having nothing else to read... :S) that he ripped the plot from Star Wars, the magic system was stolen from Earthsea and, thanks to this thread, he's hawt for Elves.

Damn it, I wasted a part of my life on that shit!

[ein]

I'd rather read horrible fan-fiction.
At least that has narm value.

[Askot Bokbondeler]

Dragon is a potentially badass title, if there are no actual dragons in the book.

Sure, I can agree to that, but the condition there is the entire reason why I believe my point is valid.

dragon is still a better title than drakon, thragon, bragon, draghon, eragon... i don't think calling a book about a dragon "dragon" is a bad thing, it's so simple and minimalistic it's actually kinda cool, especially if it plays with cliches and tropes and tropes in a wink at the camera. and you can all thank me for not linking to tv tropes there.

[ECrownofFire]

I think that the books are worth it to read them. But only if you read the sporkings, those are just hilarious.

[Jackrabbit]

I loved the first two books to death when I was 10-12 years old and now I get bored every time I pick them back up.

Oddly enough a huge number of 15-16 year olds I know love them. WhAtEvEr. GoTtA Be rOlLiN At wHaT YoUr hEaRt's gEtTiN To bE AlL In, YoU KnOw?

[Armok]

WhAtEvEr. GoTtA Be rOlLiN At wHaT YoUr hEaRt's gEtTiN To bE AlL In, YoU KnOw?

*'*'InG MiRaClEs.

[frostilicus]

Man, I couldn't even get through the first hundred pages of the Sword of Shannara. I was mentally screaming "YOU RIPPED OFF TOLKIEN AND DIDN'T EVEN BOTHER CHANGING THE CHARACTERS AROUND, YOU FUCKING JACKASS" for the whole time. And then I got to the "dwarves are evolutionary offshoots of men" thing and I just threw the book across the room. With great force.
When Jack Vance does magitech, it's cool. When Terry Brooks did it, it was lousy.
I suppose I should give him a second chance, but... meh.

Terry Brooks, imho, has been stuck in a childish writing style since he first picked up a pen. I liked Shannara the first time I picked it up (14), but now I can't even read the first two chapters before having to put the book down again.
Plus, it seems he ran the world/universe/whatever of Shannara into the ground.... Ten years ago, at least, but he keeps going with it.
"frostilicus cancels read book: Interrupted by shoddy writing."

[RedKing]

Man, I couldn't even get through the first hundred pages of the Sword of Shannara. I was mentally screaming "YOU RIPPED OFF TOLKIEN AND DIDN'T EVEN BOTHER CHANGING THE CHARACTERS AROUND, YOU FUCKING JACKASS" for the whole time. And then I got to the "dwarves are evolutionary offshoots of men" thing and I just threw the book across the room. With great force.

When Jack Vance does magitech, it's cool. When Terry Brooks did it, it was lousy.

I suppose I should give him a second chance, but... meh.

I remember the first Shannara book being fairly decent. The later ones, not so much. Of course, I was like 10 at the time.

Haven't touched the Wheel of Time books. Had some friends that were gushing about them when the first few came out. Took a look at a quick guide to the mythos, and wanted to break Jordan's apostrophe key. Sticking apostrophes in weird places and using funny spellings of traditional fantasy labels does NOT make you a good writer. Else, we'd be playing Dwh'arf Fortress.

[frostilicus]

I was like 10 at the time.

Exactly.

Haven't touched the Wheel of Time books. Had some friends that were gushing about them when the first few came out. Took a look at a quick guide to the mythos, and wanted to break Jordan's apostrophe key. Sticking apostrophes in weird places and using funny spellings of traditional fantasy labels does NOT make you a good writer. Else, we'd be playing Dwh'arf Fortress.

I never noticed this....
The WoT series definitely does have its typical hero story crap, but I always felt Jordan did a fine job of telling the story.
The problem with people explaining a story as "the same as x" or "just like y" is everyone has the basic everything all laid out.

Spoiler: For Hugeness (click to show/hide)

Departure
The Call to Adventure
The call to adventure is the point in a person's life when they are first given notice that everything is going to change, whether they know it or not.
Refusal of the Call
Often when the call is given, the future hero refuses to heed it. This may be from a sense of duty or obligation, fear, insecurity, a sense of inadequacy, or any of a range of reasons that work to hold the person in his or her current circumstances.
Supernatural Aid
Once the hero has committed to the quest, consciously or unconsciously, his or her guide and magical helper appears, or becomes known.
The Crossing of the First Threshold
This is the point where the person actually crosses into the field of adventure, leaving the known limits of his or her world and venturing into an unknown and dangerous realm where the rules and limits are not known.
The Belly of the Whale
The belly of the whale represents the final separation from the hero's known world and self. It is sometimes described as the person's lowest point, but it is actually the point when the person is between or transitioning between worlds and selves. The separation has been made, or is being made, or being fully recognized between the old world and old self and the potential for a new world/self. The experiences that will shape the new world and self will begin shortly, or may be beginning with this experience which is often symbolized by something dark, unknown and frightening. By entering this stage, the person shows their willingness to undergo a metamorphosis, to die to him or herself.

Inititation
The Road of Trials
The road of trials is a series of tests, tasks, or ordeals that the person must undergo to begin the transformation. Often the person fails one or more of these tests, which often occur in threes.
The Meeting with the Goddess
The meeting with the goddess represents the point in the adventure when the person experiences a love that has the power and significance of the all-powerful, all encompassing, unconditional love that a fortunate infant may experience with his or her mother. It is also known as the "hieros gamos", or sacred marriage, the union of opposites, and may take place entirely within the person. In other words, the person begins to see him or herself in a non-dualistic way. This is a very important step in the process and is often represented by the person finding the other person that he or she loves most completely. Although Campbell symbolizes this step as a meeting with a goddess, unconditional love and /or self unification does not have to be represented by a woman.
Woman as the Temptress
At one level, this step is about those temptations that may lead the hero to abandon or stray from his or her quest, which as with the Meeting with the Goddess does not necessarily have to be represented by a woman. For Campbell, however, this step is about the revulsion that the usually male hero may feel about his own fleshy/earthy nature, and the subsequent attachment or projection of that revulsion to women. Woman is a metaphor for the physical or material temptations of life, since the hero-knight was often tempted by lust from his spiritual journey.
Atonement with the Father
In this step the person must confront and be initiated by whatever holds the ultimate power in his or her life. In many myths and stories this is the father, or a father figure who has life and death power. This is the center point of the journey. All the previous steps have been moving in to this place, all that follow will move out from it. Although this step is most frequently symbolized by an encounter with a male entity, it does not have to be a male; just someone or thing with incredible power. For the transformation to take place, the person as he or she has been must be "killed" so that the new self can come into being. Sometime this killing is literal, and the earthly journey for that character is either over or moves into a different realm.
Apotheosis
To apotheosize is to deify. When someone dies a physical death, or dies to the self to live in spirit, he or she moves beyond the pairs of opposites to a state of divine knowledge, love, compassion and bliss. This is a god-like state; the person is in heaven and beyond all strife. A more mundane way of looking at this step is that it is a period of rest, peace and fulfillment before the hero begins the return.
The Ultimate Boon
The ultimate boon is the achievement of the goal of the quest. It is what the person went on the journey to get. All the previous steps serve to prepare and purify the person for this step, since in many myths the boon is something transcendent like the elixir of life itself, or a plant that supplies immortality, or the holy grail.

Return
Refusal of the Return
So why, when all has been achieved, the ambrosia has been drunk, and we have conversed with the gods, why come back to normal life with all its cares and woes?
The Magic Flight
Sometimes the hero must escape with the boon, if it is something that the gods have been jealously guarding. It can be just as adventurous and dangerous returning from the journey as it was to go on it.
Rescue from Without
Just as the hero may need guides and assistants to set out on the quest, often times he or she must have powerful guides and rescuers to bring them back to everyday life, especially if the person has been wounded or weakened by the experience. Or perhaps the person doesn't realize that it is time to return, that they can return, or that others need their boon.
The Crossing of the Return Threshold
The trick in returning is to retain the wisdom gained on the quest, to integrate that wisdom into a human life, and then maybe figure out how to share the wisdom with the rest of the world. This is usually extremely difficult.
Master of the Two Worlds
In myth, this step is usually represented by a transcendental hero like Jesus or Buddha. For a human hero, it may mean achieving a balance between the material and spiritual. The person has become comfortable and competent in both the inner and outer worlds.
Freedom to Live
Mastery leads to freedom from the fear of death, which in turn is the freedom to live. This is sometimes referred to as living in the moment, neither anticipating the future nor regretting the past.

And let's just leave out the hero types that are rampant in every story.

[Kagus]

Hah, my mom picked that "Hero With a Thousand Faces" book up from the library not that long ago.  I didn't read anything in it though, plus I was already somewhat familiar with how a number of different mythologies have similar or damn near identical heroic figures.


Of course, I never even got that far in the Wheel of Time books.  The first book I looked at, I could barely keep myself from putting it down for one reason or another.  It took me a couple days just to get through the introduction.

then I started reading.  Okay, Trollocs...  I don't like it, but I can ignore it for now.  Now let's see...  Spontaneous and out-of-character childish antics?   ...alright, I can live with that.  Whatever.  Moving on...

...

What.  Did you seriously just have a bard briefly mention the tale of Urther Paendrag???

Alright, no.  Just... No.  You don't get to do that.  Piss off.

[frostilicus]

Yeah. He did that. Sadly, it's even a semi-central part of the story.
I'm alright with most references because he usually keeps them as minor as possible.
Trollocs, for instance, are similar to trolls only by the similarity of the name and the fact they are both humanoid. Trolls, in every description I've ever read, are completely different than trollocs.

The Uther Pendragon similarities are more than minor, though.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Morgase Trakand - Similar to Morgause. Queen of Andor. Thought killed by Elaine's lover by sons, who of course try to kill him whenever they can.
Elaine Trakand - Her daughter.
Gawyn Trakand - Her son. ie Gawain.
Galad Trakand - Her other son. ie Galahad
Rand Al'Thor - Many similarities to Arthur.
Tigraine - His mother.
Tam Al'Thor - Only real grip here is Al'Thor and Arthur are similar. But then, Arthur's adoptive father, Sir Ector, who lived in the Wild Forest (edges of the westwood for Tam), doesn't know Arthur's lineage (*ahem* Tam).
Moiraine - Morgan Le Fey, aka Morgaine. Powerful enchantress bla bla bla, helps Arthur (Rand) every so often and eventually becomes his enemy (Not so in the WoT, "dies" later in the series).
Caemlyn - Caamlan. Cities.
Luthair Paendrag - Uther Pendragon.
Egwene Al'Vere - Similar to Gwinvere. In name and Egwene becomes Amyrlin seat (Head of magical society (Aes Sedai, White Tower), noted that queens bow before the Amyrlin. Both started/took part in a rebellion.
Lan - Lancelot?
Thom Merrilin - Merlin. Although not able to wield The Source (magic), he is a wise, white-haired old dude.
Mordeth - Moridin. Delivers a mortal wound to Rand (Arthur).
bla bla bla so on and so forth.

[Chaoswizkid]

...

Stuff like that should only be acceptable if it's contained in an alternate retelling of history, not some insulting mess that someone dribbles down for lack of inspiration, or lack of stretching their minds farther than children's story tales.

For example, when Code Geass references that stuff, it's because it's an homage to that sort of thing and is blatant that the country of Brittania (Modern day US and Britain) has similar name rulings that we use today (Lancelot-class Knightmare Frames, similar naming scheme to Churchill or Sherman tanks). But this just seems more like a blatant bastardization than an homage. Maybe it was supposed to be the opposite, but from what little I gather, it seems to have gone the other way.