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[Criptfeind]

I didn't say this was the real world, where nothing works. I'm saying that even in its own continuity many of PS powers don't work outside of the imaginary world. Why would they work in a neutral ground? Roy's powers work all the time, therefore they work in the neutral ground. In the same vein, the powers of PS that work all the time would also work in the neutral ground.

...the entire world is the imaginary world. He can do it everywhere when he figures this out this. He also spends most of his time in what you are thinking of the imaginary world anyway.

Now let me make a connection IF there was somewhere in the FMA world where alchemy does not work I CAN NOT and WILL NOT say that Roy gets no alchemy because he went there once.

Why, though?
Mustang's alchemy relies on the environment only in that it modifies the environment.
There is no special "magical power" floating around that lets them use it that wouldn't be present in a neutral environment.

...Okay. Go on go. Go try to do alchemy like they do in the show. Go I said.

...

Is it working?

[CJ1145]

I didn't say this was the real world, where nothing works. I'm saying that even in its own continuity many of PS powers don't work outside of the imaginary world. Why would they work in a neutral ground? Roy's powers work all the time, therefore they work in the neutral ground. In the same vein, the powers of PS that work all the time would also work in the neutral ground.

...the entire world is the imaginary world. He can do it everywhere when he figures this out this. He also spends most of his time in what you are thinking of the imaginary world anyway.

Now let me make a connection IF there was somewhere in the FMA world where alchemy does not work I CAN NOT and WILL NOT say that Roy gets no alchemy because he went there once.

Why, though?
Mustang's alchemy relies on the environment only in that it modifies the environment.
There is no special "magical power" floating around that lets them use it that wouldn't be present in a neutral environment.

...Okay. Go on go. Go try to do alchemy like they do in the show. Go I said.

...

Is it working?

You keep applying real-world physics to this. You want to play that game? Fine. Problem Sleuth collapses because his stick legs can't support his weight. Fight over. See where this logic leads?

Within the realm of FMA, alchemy is science, not magic. There is no unexplained force (except there is, answering your first question. They fix it later on, but there is a "switch" keeping alchemy on, and it gets turned off)

[Criptfeind]

Okay. I am saying that it is you that is trying to apply real-world physics to this.

[CJ1145]

Okay. I am saying that it is you that is trying to apply real-world physics to this.

That logic doesn't hold up. At all.

[Criptfeind]

Okay.

You are saying PS does not get his powers because they are setting specific.

You are saying RM does get his powers despite the fact that they are setting specific.

ein is saying that magic is real and everyone can do alchemy if they just BELIEVE.

[ein]

You can do anything if you just BELIEVE!

[Josephus]

CJ, Criptfiend has you outargued there. If we quibbled on the setting-specificity of someone's powers, then Luke, Isaac, and Terra would immediately become nothing more than what they are: reg'lar fellas.

[CJ1145]

Okay.

You are saying PS does not get his powers because they are setting specific.
PS doesn't get (some/most of) his powers because (as far as he knows) they only work in the imaginary world, not a neutral ground on what we assume is Earth.

You are saying RM does get his powers despite the fact that they are setting specific.
Roy gets his powers because they work on Earth. This isn't the real world, this is a neutral ground where everyone's powers work unless there's special criteria within their own worlds. This is not the case with Roy. And besides, I filled your criteria, you by agreement must let Roy have his powers.

ein is saying that magic is real and everyone can do alchemy if they just BELIEVE.
The only phrase that sums up your completely missing the point is as follows: DERP-DERP-DERP

@Josephus: Except I'm arguing that people DO get their powers. If Cript has his way then NOBODY gets powers. At least, that's the logic he's presenting.

[ein]

How about this:
Problem Sleuth gets all his setting specific powers except those that require an ally.
Ones that summon an ally, like ARMISTYX, are cool, though.

[Josephus]

That sounds good. Ein's suggestion should do it.

Anyway, the example that I keep thinking of is Quicksilver vs. Flash in JLA/Avengers.

On Earth-2, Flash wins easily because he has the Speed Force. On Earth-616, Quicksilver wins because his powers are innate and not governed by a universal force that only exists in that universe (unless you count the X-gene or whatever the hell they're calling it now).

[CJ1145]

How about this:
Problem Sleuth gets all his setting specific powers except those that require an ally.
Ones that summon an ally, like ARMISTYX, are cool, though.

Except most of his summons are insta-wins, such as Kentucky Senator. As strong as Mustang is, at least he doesn't have a Deus Ex Machina "I win button" which describes a good half of Problem Sleuth's abilities.

How about: Problem Sleuth gets his setting specific powers except those that involve an ally.

[Criptfeind]

Holy shite.

PS doesn't get (some/most of) his powers because (as far as he knows) they only work in the imaginary world, not a neutral ground on what we assume is Earth.

The world that FMA is on is not earth. It is a fantasy earth. Just like the world PS is from.

Roy gets his powers because they work on Earth. This isn't the real world, this is a neutral ground where everyone's powers work unless there's special criteria within their own worlds. This is not the case with Roy. And besides, I filled your criteria, you by agreement must let Roy have his powers.

What is this criteria? Anyway you are saying that he gets his powers because they work on earth (they don't) but this is not earth and only powers that do not work are powers that... that... that...

...
...
...

Make it so your guy does not win? I am sorry but that is the only reasons I can get for your silly exclusions.

The only phrase that sums up your completely missing the point is as follows: DERP-DERP-DERP

The joke. Your head.

@Josephus: Except I'm arguing that people DO get their powers. If Cript has his way then NOBODY gets powers. At least, that's the logic he's presenting.

I am asking that you be internally consistent, that is all. If that means no one gets powers okay but I think it would be much better if they all got powers.

How about this:
Problem Sleuth gets all his setting specific powers except those that require an ally.
Ones that summon an ally, like ARMISTYX, are cool, though.

That sounds good.

Except most of his summons are insta-wins, such as Kentucky Senator. As strong as Mustang is, at least he doesn't have a Deus Ex Machina "I win button" which describes a good half of Problem Sleuth's abilities.

How about: Problem Sleuth gets his setting specific powers except those that involve an ally.

He did that one time only and it killed some weak ass guys. Once again you are taking one circumstance and applying it to all.

[dragnar]

I'd say PS can use anything except for Sepulcritude. The rest of his powers could be countered, though Mustang's bet bet would simply be to snap and kill him during the stupidly long buildups most of them have.

And if PS gets sepulcritude Roy gets a false philosophers stone. It's only fair.

Also, CJ, your arguments as too why PS's powers wouldn't work are nonsensical. You're saying that FMA's reality is somehow more valid than PS's imaginary world. I THINK you're trying to mean that PS's powers require a massive mess of outside setup that Roy's powers don't, but all you're really saying is that FMA's physics are real and PS's aren't. I would assume a "neutral ground" in this case would be a place where PS's imagination abilities work and Roy's alchemy does as well.

[Josephus]

Argh, God dammit.

That's right, if this is a neutral ground, then it should by no way in any means be Earth if that gives some kind of advantage.

If you guys have read the short story "Arena" (I doubt it, it's an ancient story), then the neutral ground would be something like that.

Basically, a godlike being intervenes in a war between humanity and a race of starfish aliens, pulling two out of the fray to decide the destiny of mankind and alienkind in trial by champion.

The godlike being's idea of a neutral ground is a horrid place that is essentially hell, for both contestants. Of course, this kind of arena would be better for Ein's thread.

[CJ1145]

Holy shite.
I could say the same

PS doesn't get (some/most of) his powers because (as far as he knows) they only work in the imaginary world, not a neutral ground on what we assume is Earth.

The world that FMA is on is not earth. It is a fantasy earth. Just like the world PS is from.
It's earth TO THEM. Why is this so hard for you to grasp?

Roy gets his powers because they work on Earth. This isn't the real world, this is a neutral ground where everyone's powers work unless there's special criteria within their own worlds. This is not the case with Roy. And besides, I filled your criteria, you by agreement must let Roy have his powers.

What is this criteria? Anyway you are saying that he gets his powers because they work on earth (they don't) but this is not earth
That's why I specified "within their own worlds". Seriously. Get that, it's simple.
and only powers that do not work are powers that... that... that...

...
...
...

Make it so your guy does not win? I am sorry but that is the only reasons I can get for your silly exclusions.
Here's a thought: Your guy is already DRACULA WITH THE POWER OF AN ATOM BOMB CONTAINED IN A SCYTHE. YOU DO NOT NEED ANYTHING ELSE TO MAKE THIS A FAIR FIGHT.

The only phrase that sums up your completely missing the point is as follows: DERP-DERP-DERP

The joke. Your head.
Didn't I agree at some point to stop talking and wait for the judgment? When did you start up the insult-flinging again?

@Josephus: Except I'm arguing that people DO get their powers. If Cript has his way then NOBODY gets powers. At least, that's the logic he's presenting.

I am asking that you be internally consistent, that is all. If that means no one gets powers okay but I think it would be much better if they all got powers.
I'm BEING consistent! Jesus FUCKING Christ, dude! Let me lay out my idea for the neutral ground IN EXPLICIT DETAIL so that you can't make any of these damn confusing questions:

It is a totally neutral ground. There are spots of cover, a building or two, but designed so that neither side has an explicit advantage. The power system works like this: If it's available to you at all times, you can use it. If you need special conditions to unlock it, such as Problem Sleuth's imaginary powers

Spoiler: FMA spoiler (click to show/hide)

Or Roy witnessing "The Truth"

then it's out of the question. You only have what equipment you would normally carry on you, except we gave Problem Sleuth extra stuff because I'm such a nice guy. You get three days to research your opponents (all of them, you are not informed who you will be fighting, only given a list of contestants) and physically prepare yourself. There are no mooks to grind, only equipment to use, preventing XP gain for video game characters, or nectar gain for Sleuth. Roy doesn't get stronger from killing, so there's not really a problem there.

After time is up, they are deposited on opposite sides of the ground to begin combat, alone, with no possible way of accessing third-party aid. This goes for Roy's squad, Problem Sleuth's allies, summons for Final Fantasy characters, etc. Is this OK to you?

Also, CJ, your arguments as too why PS's powers wouldn't work are nonsensical. You're saying that FMA's reality is somehow more valid than PS's imaginary world. I THINK you're trying to mean that PS's powers require a massive mess of outside setup that Roy's powers don't, but all you're really saying is that FMA's physics are real and PS's aren't. I would assume a "neutral ground" in this case would be a place where PS's imagination abilities work and Roy's alchemy does as well.

Well sorry dude. I get really angry sometimes over really nonsensical stuff. When I think somebody's wrong, I prove them wrong at any cost. To give you an idea, my friends compare me to Leonard Church on a regular basis; I kind of have a temperament issue, but I don't mean any offense by it. I just get pissed at things.