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[Phantom]

I'd forgotten about that... Candy Corn Vampire would certainly level the playing field, making him fast enough to dodge almost anything, plus death's scythe for offense. Roy would still win though, as it has a very limited duration during which Roy could easily shield himself with flames to just wait it out.

I do have to wonder how much some flames are going to help him. I think just some DIPLOMACY would solve all his silly fire problems.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

He just needs to do a few Sleuth Rolls, and summon the Rampaging Kentucky Senator too.

[Criptfeind]

I mean hell if he really needs to he can do his most powerful move.

[CJ1145]

Note: The following argument contains spoilers from about halfway into Fullmetal Alchemist, and close to the end of Problem Sleuth. You have been warned.

Okay. This is the big one. Bolded for effect. I love Problem Sleuth. Okay? I archive binged the entire story in ONE DAY. Nonstop, I started that bitch and rode it all the way home. Do I regret it? No, of course I don't, because it was awesome! That is why is pains me so dearly to say... Problem Sleuth can't win this fight. Okay? He just can't. Guns are a nice thought, but what a lot of people don't realize is that Fullmetal Alchemist takes place in an alternate WWII of sorts. As hard as it is to believe, the technology Mustang has faced-and decimated, mind you- is actually MORE advanced than what Problem Sleuth has at his disposal.

And yes, Problem Sleuth has some special abilities, but the problem is most of those require one thing he simply does not have access to here: Allies.

Pickle Inspector, Hysterical Dame, Ace Dick, Fiesta Ace Dick, Zombie Ace Dick, hell even Snoop Dogg were all essential in Problem Sleuth's victory.  But they're not here, and due to the nature of this battle they will not arrive through some contrived means. Without them (and without a portal to the imaginary world, if this is a truly neutral ground) then Problem Sleuth is simply an ordinary, if hard-boiled man with a gun, against Colonel Mustang, who can and has wiped out hundreds of soldiers with roughly the same equipment. And that was when he was a rookie.

Mustang has proven that bullets, while effective, have two problems when against him: He's tough to hit, and if he is hit, there's a good chance he'll kill you before you can gloat. He's stubborn to a fault, and this shows up in battle, particularly his battle with Lust, where he was impaled with what should have been a fatal wound, not to mention his gloves were wet, and thus couldn't be used. What did he, lay there and die? No, he (capped for effect) CARVED A TRANSMUTATION CIRCLE INTO HIS HAND, THEN USED HIS CRIPPLED FRIEND'S LIGHTER TO MAKE FIRE AND SEAL HIS WOUNDS WITH FIRE, THEN WENT ON TO BURN LUST TO DEATH, WHICH TOOK OVER TWELVE SICKNASTY BLASTS OF ALL-CLEANSING FIRE.

I may be ranting. In fact, I'm fairly sure I am.  But outside of Problem Sleuth's own world, he is little more than a Badass Normal/Cloud Cuckoolander.

Plus, chances are his gun will turn into a key when he tries to fire. That sort of insanity backfires against most enemies. I'll think of more to add later, until then please take my points into account. Remember, this is not a popuarity contest, but a test of combat.

[dragnar]

As I said: No friends = no power for the sleuth. The fight will come down to whether or not PS has access to all the stuff he needs for his special abilities. Getting a hold of a pumpkin for gambit schema is far harder than one would think, seeing as the one he used the first time is the only pumpkin to ever really exist in MSPA. Also, sepulcritude requires a Lv. 8 comb rave, and damaging Roy enough to get even a level 1 would take longer than the fight. Roy is resourceful, PS only wins through ridiculous contrivance and all of his friends being at just the right place at just the right time.

I'd forgotten about that... Candy Corn Vampire would certainly level the playing field, making him fast enough to dodge almost anything, plus death's scythe for offense. Roy would still win though, as it has a very limited duration during which Roy could easily shield himself with flames to just wait it out.

I do have to wonder how much some flames are going to help him. I think just some DIPLOMACY would solve all his silly fire problems.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

But Candy Corn Vampire does not use guns. And if PS isn't in that form he's one *snap* away from being lit on fire.

[Criptfeind]

Okay then. Your arguments make sense, he should not have access to his powers or items. Although to make it fair I think that FUCKING MAGIC should not work ether. Now you got a bad ass vs a bad ass with a gun. Lets see how that works.

[Diablous]

About Problem Sleuth not being able to use his friends, can't he just bring his window and the battery pack and extension cord he got from the Weasel King? His friends could aid him from the imaginary world through that.

[dragnar]

Okay then. Your arguments make sense, he should not have access to his powers or items. Although to make it fair I think that FUCKING MAGIC should not work ether. Now you got a bad ass vs a bad ass with a gun. Lets see how that works.

Sleuth should have access to his powers, but the problem is that almost ALL of his powers rely on getting help from a bunch of other people who aren't in the fight. I'll give him the pumpkin for his gambit schema, but apart from that he doesn't have much that woks alone. As for items... he doesn't really have any, except for the various guns keys he collects, and he can't carry most of those anyway.

Also, entering the imaginary world wouldn't help at all. Roy is not insane and would just shoot him while he hid in his box fort.

[CJ1145]

About Problem Sleuth not being able to use his friends, can't he just bring his window and the battery pack and extension cord he got from the Weasel King? His friends could aid him from the imaginary world through that.

If that's true, then Mustang gets Ed, Al, all of Briggs, Riza and the rest of his team. Maybe the Armstrong siblings too. As dragnar already said, I'm not so much against him having powers as I am having the allies to use those powers. The other FIGHT TO THE DEATH thread explains what would happen when they're commanding a group. This is one-on-one.

Basically, Sleuth can use any of his powers that don't require allies, and Roy gets his fire. This is even in a sense, but Roy would win that fight definitely.

[Phantom]

I've always wondered one thing, what would happen if you gave Sleuth a Masterkey or a Skeleton key.

[CJ1145]

I've always what would happen if you gave Roy a Kingdom Key

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

But I guess we'll never know...

[Criptfeind]

Okay let me retry that because it came out wrong.

As hard as it is to believe, the technology Mustang has faced-and decimated, mind you- is actually MORE advanced than what Problem Sleuth has at his disposal.

Now this makes sense but it really only covers one of PS ways to fight. His weakest way at that.

Problem Sleuth has some special abilities, but the problem is most of those require one thing he simply does not have access to here: Allies.

Um... no? Everything I have said requires no allies.

without a portal to the imaginary world, if this is a truly neutral ground then Problem Sleuth is simply an ordinary, if hard-boiled man with a gun, against Colonel Mustang, who can and has wiped out hundreds of soldiers with roughly the same equipment. And that was when he was a rookie.

Okay but see, then Mustang simply can not use his alchemy because that is just as setting specific.
Unless you are saying he killed hundreds of soldiers with a hand gun.

Mustang has proven that bullets, while effective, have two problems when against him: He's tough to hit, and if he is hit, there's a good chance he'll kill you before you can gloat. He's stubborn to a fault, and this shows up in battle, particularly his battle with Lust, where he was impaled with what should have been a fatal wound, not to mention his gloves were wet, and thus couldn't be used. What did he, lay there and die? No, he (capped for effect) CARVED A TRANSMUTATION CIRCLE INTO HIS HAND, THEN USED HIS CRIPPLED FRIEND'S LIGHTER TO MAKE FIRE AND SEAL HIS WOUNDS WITH FIRE, THEN WENT ON TO BURN LUST TO DEATH, WHICH TOOK OVER TWELVE SICKNASTY BLASTS OF ALL-CLEANSING FIRE.

Although interesting it really is a quality that all main character have and I don't know how you think it is going to help him. As for not getting hit by a gun how is that going to help him as he gets sliced by a scythe or killed by a jet?

Plus, chances are his gun will turn into a key when he tries to fire. That sort of insanity backfires against most enemies.

1: That only happens for the lulz and never when it is critical
2: Who said anything -ever- about using his gun?


You two are setting a double standard here Roy gets everything and all his powers and PS gets nothing.

Sleuth can use any of his powers that don't require allies, and Roy gets his fire. This is even in a sense, but Roy would win that fight definitely.

How many of his powers need allies? Really? Think about it. The answer? Two. Both are very weak and have not come up in my arguments as to why he would win.

As for items... he doesn't really have any

Other than the elf tears and what not of course. Which he can than use to get the scythe.


All your arguments are than PS would win if he had his powers but he does not because his powers need friends. His powers do not need friends and therefor he wins.

I've always wondered one thing, what would happen if you gave Sleuth a Masterkey or a Skeleton key.

It would turn into some sorta gun.

I've always what would happen if you gave Roy a Kingdom Key

Everybody in a 100 mile diameter dies?

[Diablous]

he doesn't really have any, except for the various guns keys he collects, and he can't carry most of those anyway.

I think you've confused PS and PI there. PS can carry them just fine. It's PI who can only carry one of them because of his horrible VIM stat.

[Criptfeind]

I doubt that PS can carry the hairpin in his weakest state.

[CJ1145]

I like your points Criptfiend, but I still think you're wrong.

Okay let me retry that because it came out wrong.

As hard as it is to believe, the technology Mustang has faced-and decimated, mind you- is actually MORE advanced than what Problem Sleuth has at his disposal.

Now this makes sense but it really only covers one of PS ways to fight. His weakest way at that.
Fine, but he's killed more mooks this way than any other. While weak, it is the core of his fighting style.

Problem Sleuth has some special abilities, but the problem is most of those require one thing he simply does not have access to here: Allies.

Um... no? Everything I have said requires no allies.
Powers or not, PS' allies did most, if not all the fighting. Problem Sleuth took out most of the one tower, yes, but that was with guns. And I've already explained what happens with the guns.

without a portal to the imaginary world, if this is a truly neutral ground then Problem Sleuth is simply an ordinary, if hard-boiled man with a gun, against Colonel Mustang, who can and has wiped out hundreds of soldiers with roughly the same equipment. And that was when he was a rookie.

Okay but see, then Mustang simply can not use his alchemy because that is just as setting specific.
Unless you are saying he killed hundreds of soldiers with a hand gun.
What I'm saying is that this is a neutral ground that doesn't give specific advantages. There is no imaginary world here, but if Problem Sleuth figures out how to draw a transmutation circle I have nothing against him using alchemy. Alchemy can hurt or help Mustang, but the imaginary world is almost exclusively a boon to Problem Sleuth.

Mustang has proven that bullets, while effective, have two problems when against him: He's tough to hit, and if he is hit, there's a good chance he'll kill you before you can gloat. He's stubborn to a fault, and this shows up in battle, particularly his battle with Lust, where he was impaled with what should have been a fatal wound, not to mention his gloves were wet, and thus couldn't be used. What did he, lay there and die? No, he (capped for effect) CARVED A TRANSMUTATION CIRCLE INTO HIS HAND, THEN USED HIS CRIPPLED FRIEND'S LIGHTER TO MAKE FIRE AND SEAL HIS WOUNDS WITH FIRE, THEN WENT ON TO BURN LUST TO DEATH, WHICH TOOK OVER TWELVE SICKNASTY BLASTS OF ALL-CLEANSING FIRE.

Although interesting it really is a quality that all main character have and I don't know how you think it is going to help him. As for not getting hit by a gun how is that going to help him as he gets sliced by a scythe or killed by a jet?
Doesn't Problem Sleuth need a bunch of items he would not normally have or acquire to obtain that scythe? Also, dodging. Mustang doesn't use defensive alchemy through nearly the entire series, he's learned to evade things. Also, Problem Sleuth is also a main character, which is why those insane coincidences worked in his favor.

Plus, chances are his gun will turn into a key when he tries to fire. That sort of insanity backfires against most enemies.

1: That only happens for the lulz and never when it is critical
2: Who said anything -ever- about using his gun?
Somebody mentioned "Sleuth Diplomacy" and I explained why that does nothing.


You two are setting a double standard here Roy gets everything and all his powers and PS gets nothing.
No, Roy gets what he has earned and Problem Sleuth gets what isn't a funny Deus Ex Machina. It's not a lot, sadly.

Sleuth can use any of his powers that don't require allies, and Roy gets his fire. This is even in a sense, but Roy would win that fight definitely.

How many of his powers need allies? Really? Think about it. The answer? Two. Both are very weak and have not come up in my arguments as to why he would win.
Once again, powers or not Problem Sleuth's victories come from his friends. It'd be like Ash fighting without his Pokemon. He might do some damage, but he's certainly not going to win.

As for items... he doesn't really have any

Other than the elf tears and what not of course. Which he can than use to get the scythe.
That's a pretty specific exception there. He doesn't usually have those things, therefore no scythe.


All your arguments are than PS would win if he had his powers but he does not because his powers need friends. His powers do not need friends and therefor he wins.
No, my argument is "Without friends, PS' powers aren't up to snuff, therefore Mustang wins". Pay more attention, silly

[dragnar]

You two are setting a double standard here Roy gets everything and all his powers and PS gets nothing.

No,  PS gets all his items and things he needs for things like gambit schema and abilities.

Sepulcritude requires help from a goddess and a Lv. 8 comb rave(which is NOT an item, but something earned through doing a ridiculous amount of damage. Meaning if he's about to win it's a good finisher, but it won't help if Roy's winning)

Sleuth diplomacy is just firing a gun, which Roy has more training with, being in the military

Candy Corn Vampire is powerful, especially with ARMISTICE, and I agree he should have the items to pull it off, but it's short duration and Roy can simply block off all routes to melee attacks with fire.

and that's all of his abilities I can think of that don't require help.

I think it's a close fight, but in the end Roy wins simply due to his training making him a much better shot and his abilities making melee next to impossible. Also because any help PS tries to get from the imaginary world is useless because it's imaginary, even within the confines of MSPA. Roy can stay in reality and shoot PS's comatose REAL body.