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[Mel_Vixen]

Modern Greengold can by the way include Platin and Palladium iirc. New Silver (also known as Nickel silver, German silver, paktong or alpacca) looks like Silver but is not that obvious unless it tarnishes. The problem i see is communicating this kind of materials back to the player. In fort mode this might not be such a problem but in ADV mode you would need to know which material you get for various reasons. Maybe a some "smelter" knowledge might be needed here.

Wasnt that Egyptian Pharaons mask and Tut enchs entire sarcophargus from pure Gold?

edit: Artificial electrum was a coinage metal says wikipedia and which sounds plausible for high value coins. Lower coinage metals were normally various forms of Billon mixes.

[Cotes]

As for the names of gold. If we were to seperate them I'd actually would prefer it to be "Gold" and "Pure Gold" or "True Gold"

Eh, why just not use the proper names for the different alloys like DF already does? Plain 'gold' to imply an alloy is pretty silly, especially when the game has multiple.

Because generally a gold alloy that looks exactly like gold tends to be called "Gold" and is measured in karats. Unless you want gold to be measured in Karats... which personally is fine and would be nice for Adventurer mode.

Look at the electrum and rose gold alloys the game already contains. Like that. There's no reason to call a gold alloy simply 'gold' in a game that clearly differentiates between pure gold and its alloys. It also doesn't make sense to use that because there's not just one specific gold alloy called 'gold' in everyday language. It could refer to almost any gold alloy. There's also no need to measure it in karats when you already know that, for example, rose gold contains 75% gold and 25% copper.
Such naming would also ignore what other metals go into 'gold', because like said, saying 'gold' in the meaning of 'a gold alloy' doesn't tell you what kind of gold alloy you are talking about.  I mean, which kind of alloy would you even make make this 'plain' gold?

There's just no reason to dumb it down to just pure gold and one alloy.

[NW_Kohaku]

Wasnt that Egyptian Pharaons mask and Tut enchs entire sarcophargus from pure Gold?

Death masks and coffins that are in tombs meant to be sealed basically until the time the dead walk the land again (and at which point, would never see use again) would not really need to be strong, though.  Unlike, say, a solid gold chair, which would probably be banged around a little.

[Neonivek]

It isn't dumbing it down it is being realistic

White Gold and Rose Gold both have aestetic differences to gold

Gold that is alloyed but looks like gold is rarely called anything else but "Gold". It is sometimes also refered to by its purity but otherwise it is "Gold"

In fact calling it something else is dumbing it down given that your refering to a different product that is only partially related to the original as THE gold alloy.

There is no reason to even make lists of the "Gold Gold" alloys.

[Cotes]

It isn't dumbing it down it is being realistic

White Gold and Rose Gold both have aestetic differences to gold

Gold that is alloyed but looks like gold is rarely called anything else but "Gold". It is sometimes also refered to by its purity but otherwise it is "Gold"

In fact calling it something else is dumbing it down given that your refering to a different product that is only partially related to the original as THE gold alloy.

There is no reason to even make lists of the "Gold Gold" alloys.

It doesn't matter if a gold that looks like gold is called gold by most people, when for people who actually make the stuff have to know specifically what type of gold alloy they need to make. You can't just tell them to make "gold alloy".

So you say there's "the" gold alloy. Mind informing us what alloy it is then? Does it have copper, zinc, etc. and in what amounts? And yes, there's a reason to make a list of (some) gold alloys for DF, because the game mechanic works by choosing what alloys you want to make from a list and those alloys have predefined amounts of metals you need.

How do you suppose we use the smelters in DF to make "the" gold alloy without being aware what other metals you mix it with? And if you know what other metals it uses and how much of them then, da-daa, you can name the alloy, like rose gold when its 3/4 gold and 1/4 copper.

[Neonivek]

If the gold is pure enough you can practically alloy it with anything but I don't know what people traditionally alloy gold with to make it less pure without altering it (possibly for decreasing its value or using less gold in the case of minting) and they have little differences between them.

There is little point to naming an "Almost Pure Gold" except if we are adding in the complex economic systems.

Let me see... If I know the Karat system (and I don't) the lighest alloy/composit you can get with gold is 1/24th anything and 23/24ths gold to make gold.

[Cotes]

But there's not one true, most common or most traditional gold alloy. And what do you mean by "altering it"? Are you stuck with the idea that gold stops being real gold if you stick a fancy name in front of it or something? The only real gold in the sense you are after is pure gold, and as established, it's not a very good material for anything it can be used in DF.

And I am not talking about "almost pure" either, as to my knowledge even most 90% gold alloys are also too soft to be practical. Most of the alloys seem to be 80% gold or less.

E: Well, I suppose yellow gold could be what you think as the ordinary gold. (One) composition for it is apparently 75:15:10 (gold, silver, copper). A bit problematic if you want to keep the 5 bar limit. I guess you could compromise it to 3:1:1 if it is ever included.
.:

[NW_Kohaku]

For example, alloys which are mixed 14 parts gold to 10 parts alloy create 14-karat gold, 18 parts gold to 6 parts alloy creates 18 karat, and so on. This is often expressed as the result of the ratio, i.e.: 14/24 equals 0.585 (rounded off), and 18/24 is 0.750. There are hundreds of possible alloys and mixtures, but in general the addition of silver will color gold white, and the addition of copper will color it red. A mix of around 50/50 copper and silver gives the range of yellow gold alloys the public is accustomed to seeing in the marketplace. A small amount (0.2%) of zinc can be added to harden the alloy.

The most common grades of gold, in addition to pure 24ct, are 22ct (92%), 18ct (75%), 14ct (58%) and 9ct (38%).

See also the list of possible gold alloys I put in my post before last - "12k Gold" (that k stands for karat) is 2 Gold, 1 Silver, 1 Copper, and would have the lowest amount of actual bars of metal needed to actually perform an alloying reaction, while "18k gold" is something better suited for fine jewelry, and would be 4 gold, 1 silver, 1 copper, but would require more metal on hand at once to perform any given reaction.

I'm not saying we need all these reactions, but a few choice selections from among them.

[Neonivek]

Yellow gold is a good name. Albiet confusing but it is a good one.

My complaint was that the name for a Gold Alloy that still by all means would be called gold... it would be called something that was contrary to its existance.

[Cotes]

For example, alloys which are mixed 14 parts gold to 10 parts alloy create 14-karat gold, 18 parts gold to 6 parts alloy creates 18 karat, and so on. This is often expressed as the result of the ratio, i.e.: 14/24 equals 0.585 (rounded off), and 18/24 is 0.750. There are hundreds of possible alloys and mixtures, but in general the addition of silver will color gold white, and the addition of copper will color it red. A mix of around 50/50 copper and silver gives the range of yellow gold alloys the public is accustomed to seeing in the marketplace. A small amount (0.2%) of zinc can be added to harden the alloy.

The most common grades of gold, in addition to pure 24ct, are 22ct (92%), 18ct (75%), 14ct (58%) and 9ct (38%).

See also the list of possible gold alloys I put in my post before last - "12k Gold" (that k stands for karat) is 2 Gold, 1 Silver, 1 Copper, and would have the lowest amount of actual bars of metal needed to actually perform an alloying reaction, while "18k gold" is something better suited for fine jewelry, and would be 4 gold, 1 silver, 1 copper, but would require more metal on hand at once to perform any given reaction.

I'm not saying we need all these reactions, but a few choice selections from among them.

I just suggested 3 gold, 1 silver, 1 copper above =P

I guess 2:1:1 is just as fine though, but 4:1:1 requires a bit too many bars/ores in my opinion. And yeah, I definitely agree that not every single gold alloy needs to be included. I'd be happy with yellow, rose and perhaps blue or white gold (white would at least give some more use to nickel). Depends on how much other decorative metals would be expanded while at it.

Yellow gold is a good name. Albiet confusing but it is a good one.

My complaint was that the name for a Gold Alloy that still by all means would be called gold... it would be called something that was contrary to its existance.

Why should it be called just gold? What is exactly the contradiction here? There's honestly nothing confusing about it. I mean, sure I get what you mean, when people go buy a yellow gold ring they don't really much care what the extra name that comes from the composition of the alloy is, they just call it gold, and honestly, for an average person the distinction isn't too important.

But different types of alloys are a part of DF's gameplay, so the distinction definitely is needed there.

[Cotes]

No. Pure gold, as in gold bars, is pure gold. Otherwise what would we be making all these alloys out of?

Uhh, what? I do know that. My suggestion was to to make the already existing pure gold bars unusable for making stuff out of it (or at least have some restrictions), not to add pure gold into the game.

[Neonivek]

Why should it be called just gold? What is exactly the contradiction here? There's honestly nothing confusing about it

Simply that Rose gold, Blue Gold, Black Gold, Orange Gold, White Gold, Rainbow Gold and whatever gold doesn't look like gold.

So it would be silly to make those the replacement for whatever they make gold out of.

[Cotes]

Why should it be called just gold? What is exactly the contradiction here? There's honestly nothing confusing about it

Simply that Rose gold, Blue Gold, Black Gold, Orange Gold, White Gold, Rainbow Gold and whatever gold doesn't look like gold.

So it would be silly to make those the replacement for whatever they make gold out of.

We've been over this. All gold is *something* gold except the pure and almost pure, which are not quite suitable for making stuff. You don't make gold out of anything, only its alloys, that are primarily gold with other metals mixed to give it durability or different color. And you do realize the game already has rose gold and electrum? Also black bronze on the copper side of things (which totally looks nothing like bronze should, gosh!). What is exactly silly about them? Maybe I want to make more reddish gold statues for my fort rather than the plain yellow.

Consider - yellow gold looks more like gold "should" than rose gold, but they actually have the same amount of gold. Same for blue gold. What the metal looks like matters none. It's still just as much gold.

I don't just get you. Why do you want there to be just one gold alloy (I assume the 2-3 gold, 1 silver, 1 copper one)? How exactly does that add anything to the game? Why the hell limit to that just because rose gold doesn't look enough like what you except gold to look? First of all, the whole point is being able to alter the gold aesthetically, both in RL and in DF. Secondly, why not give the option to make them in DF when you can in real life?

[cameron]

as soft as gold is it most certainly doesn't melt at room temperature. You can make tables and stuff out of it just they will deform faster and be an incredible waste of gold.

[Cotes]

as soft as gold is it most certainly doesn't melt at room temperature. You can make tables and stuff out of it just they will deform faster and be an incredible waste of gold.

Well, obviously not. However, since the game currently doesn't have the feature of degrading objects, shouldn't making pure gold furniture simply be disabled until it has? What metals can be used to make weapons and armors is already restricted, although you totally could make some of them in reality, it'd just be really stupid. Much like pure gold tables.