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[Daywalkah]

I did a few searches and came up with nothing, so forgive me if a topic already exists.



I propose the adventurer should be given the option to train for a player specified time under a weapon master. The master could also serve as a tutorial to weapons in Dwarf Fortress, as in teaching the player which weapon is best for which job. What is best against the undead, Bronze Colossus, HFS, etc. The player could test out multiple training weapons from an armory and choose which they would like to use. If they decide they don't like their chosen weapon, they can just return to the armory and chose a new one. The main advantage here is to be able to train without risk of dying or running out of ammunition (you would be supplied).

Along side this, Toady's villain/hero features could be used in a way. The way the player acts around town when they are not training could effect how the people view them and start a reputation of sorts. If the player steals, their reputation worsens. If the player offers help with no pay and the like, their reputation improves.

Thoughts?

[Creamcorn]

I'm half and half on the first idea. To begin to teach someone the way of a weapon, there would first need a type of fighting discipline and then a style which one fights with the weapon.

Essentially it makes the game engine track about a hundred different ways to use a sword. Which would be fucking cool and realistic, but it would be tasking to say the least. Course, it could be implemented in the raws and created by the players in the first place but it would still be difficult (or complicated) to track which style would be superior in the battle field.

It could be simplified by having each weapon separated into some sort of simplified skill tree. Offense: for when a weapon is wielded as a weapon. Defense: Concentrates on blocking and countering.

Hm, maybe it could be separated into this?

[WEAPON_NAME]
[STYLE_1:XX:YY:ZZ]

XX: Would equal weapons damage output in a style
YY: Would equal weapons accuracy roll
ZZ: Would equal... attacker's ability to recover from weapon's swing if missed

As for the tutorials, it could be useful but still be a pain to associate which weapons work best on what types of creatures. I would instead rely on player veteran stories instead of DF quirky AI.

The reputation part isn't as interesting to elaborate upon. Cultural things could be implemented but, that won't stop anyone from mass genociding a village because they don't like them.

[Daywalkah]

One style won't be superior to the other styles entirely. If dual weapons are ever implemented, that style could be best against a huge number of enemies. A sword and shield could be best against one enemy. Some styles could be faster, some slower. Listening to the AI giving a tutorial about which weapon is best could probably be scrapped, unless someone else thinks of a better use of it. Most people who play DF seem to come to the forums or wiki eventually, so that wouldn't be a major problem.

[Pilsu]

Dual wielding would be a bit out of place for a game that aims for realism.

[Daywalkah]

Dual wielding seems to be very popular in games, shows, and novels. Strike me down if I'm wrong, but Dwarf Fortress is a game. Besides, it has dwarves, dragons, and carp that eat cows (mine specifically). How is that realistic? Dual wielding would have a place in DF in my opinion, considering dual wielding is possible in real life and has probably been done many times before, but that's just an assumption. In the end, it come to Toady One to decide whether to add it or not.

[Funk]

Dual wielding did happen but it was mostly sword and dagger or gun.
Dual wielding does have a lot of bad points i.e.

• it is harder to block with a weapon than a shield,even harder vs missiles.
• most people have a preferred hand.
• in RL there are no two weapon combo attacks
• less power or range than using a two handed weapon

the good

• you have two weapons so counter attack may be easy.
• you can have two different weapons(war hammer and axe any one?)
• just maybe you need the spare weapon in the case you drop one in the seconds it takes to draw your dagger?

[Daywalkah]

Well I do like the idea of dual weapons being implemented, let's not stray too far from the topic please. I know I didn't help with my last post, but I didn't think it would continue. There are a few other topics that mention adding dual weapons. Please discuss this there if you feel a need to.

[NW_Kohaku]

And how would dual weilding work?  If it's just another attack, (like choosing between grappling with the left hand or right hand when unarmed) it wouldn't be much help, since you can only do one attack (or action of any sort) per turn.  It would just be "I attack with my right hand this time... now my left!".  Maybe it would make sense if you had, say, a piercing weapon and a bludgeoning weapon, so that you could choose attack types, but otherwise...

If you want to say "both hands attack at the same time, and act just like normal attacks with full damage", well, then, you've just made a munchkin power.

[Daywalkah]

You have a good point. If Dwarf Fortress was real-time then it would be of worthy note on suggestions, but it isn't. The only way I really tried it was with a modded in pistol and a scimitar, the scimitar for melee and the pistol for ranged. Maybe if an adventurer had two swords and was attacked by the usual pack of wolves he could block more than one attack and attack more than one enemy.

[silhouette]

Or it could simply increase the speed of attack...

[Josephus]

Dual wielding would be a bit out of place for a game that aims for realism.

Depends on the style. Weapon forms in Arnis use two relatively short swords or machetes - or a sword and parrying dagger, for example.

[Daywalkah]

Or it could simply increase the speed of attack...

Maybe weapons techniques could play into this? Whirling dual swords around in a wide arc would prove effective against those damn wolves that kill off early adventurers.

Dual wielding would be a bit out of place for a game that aims for realism.

Depends on the style. Weapon forms in Arnis use two relatively short swords or machetes - or a sword and parrying dagger, for example.

That's what I was thinking. I think, with work, could be an excellent addition to DF.


Does anyone know when Toady is planning to optimize the pathfinding in DF? I lost most of my forts to terrible FPS.

[Neonivek]

One problem I have with training is on one hand by all means you should be allowed to train for as long as you want.

On the other hand however being able to say "Ok I train in the woods for 20 years so now I am amazing" would be sort of bad.

It needs balancing out though a trainer/master to have a decent skill raise from training is a start.

Though I have absolutely no problem with it easily getting skills to decent levels. (imagine being able to train swimming without risking your life)

[Josephus]

On the other hand however being able to say "Ok I train in the woods for 20 years so now I am amazing" would be sort of bad.

Dude, in-game 20 years will take a long time to pass. There shouldn't be any shortcuts of that sort, of course.

[Daywalkah]

Yeah no shortcuts would be possible. You would have to do the training yourself. You can stop training at anytime and when you do so, maybe time would pass to a certain year without the adventurer gaining or losing any skill. There would be a cap on the amount of years that pass so the character doesn't die of age.