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[Robsoie]

Maybe you should be able to do Lair:8 now if you can get Swamp:1 to 4 cleaned and that Hydra are not much of a threat to you.
Though i never found any good items for my characters the 2 times i went there, maybe just bad luck, but at least there's some XP to make if you are carefull enough.

[HideousBeing]

Maybe you should be able to do Lair:8 now if you can get Swamp:1 to 4 cleaned and that Hydra are not much of a threat to you.
Though i never found any good items for my characters the 2 times i went there, maybe just bad luck, but at least there's some XP to make if you are carefull enough.

Well... All 3 of the stairs down to L:7 are covered in deathyaks. I'm not really loving the idea of lair right now.

[Robsoie]

Ouch, that's very bad.
I would not go anymore anywhere a stair with a pack of death yak around.

[Thornet]

Ok, what am I missing here? I picked up an artifact set of gloves with the following stats:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

p - the -2 pair of gloves of Croshiup {+Blink rPois}

A pair of gloves.

Armour rating: 1       Evasion modifier: +0


It protects you from poison.
It lets you blink.

It weighs around 2.0 aum.

This ancient artefact cannot be changed by magic or mundane means.

The part I'm concerned about is where it says it lets me blink. I've tried evoking the item with v and V, both claim I have no evokable items. I've tried this both wearing the item and not. Do I need to be a magic user or something? I need this figured out because if I can't blink I will probably die (Being beat on by Edmond). Any thoughts?

[HideousBeing]

Ok, what am I missing here? I picked up an artifact set of gloves with the following stats:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

p - the -2 pair of gloves of Croshiup {+Blink rPois}

A pair of gloves.

Armour rating: 1       Evasion modifier: +0


It protects you from poison.
It lets you blink.

It weighs around 2.0 aum.
t.
This ancient artefact cannot be changed by magic or mundane means.

The part I'm concerned about is where it says it lets me blink. I've tried evoking the item with v and V, both claim I have no evokable items. I've tried this both wearing the item and not. Do I need to be a magic user or something? I need this figured out because if I can't blink I will probably die (Being beat on by Edmond). Any thoughts?

The abilities('a') menu should have it.

BTW I decided to go to snake pits for now. Anacondas are tough (sitting in summon flames for 4 turns and alive!) and I assumed they had rPois, but turns out they don't. Next one should be significantly easier.

EDIT: BTW get on irc #bay12crawl on the regular crawl irc server (chat.freenode.net).

[Thornet]

The abilities('a') menu should have it.

I thought I tried that, but I must have not been wearing them at the time. Escaped from Edmund, thanks.

[HideousBeing]

Just lost that character to Azrael. Hellfire hits hard.

[Dr.Feelgood]

Woo! Bay12 Champions has 4000 points, which is more than last year's team! We seem to be stuck at #8, though I'm sure we can make it into the top 5.

[Robsoie]

Managed to kill 2 death yaks with my little spriggan enchanter, but it was not easy, those things are very resistant to Hibernation and are not really bothered by my EV, i had to run around a deep water pond with each of the death yaks following, trying to launch Hibernation each time i was far enough.

Took time for them to get to sleep, just to be horribly stabbed to death after that.

Currently trying to clean Lair, went down to Lair:6 , really hoping to find a Jiyva altar, as this time i am aiming for it, managing to get the royal jelly status in faith would be insanely helpfull.

But as i have been a bit lucky, my guess is that there will be Jiyva altar only inside of Slime Pit, the worst possible outcome as i don't really want to go there without turning all those jelly to neutral, as i have no corrosion resistance yet.

[Thornet]

Oh wow, no wonder I was having so much trouble from Edmund. He just gave me a +4 +5 flail of protection and +1 chainmail.

[Robsoie]

Just cleared most of the8 floors of Lair with my now level 13 spriggan, but i got myself into a world of problem while i was exploring Lair:6 and fell into a shaft and landed into the more dangerous Lair:8
Was lucky to get back, met some hydras in the way, but the experience in cleaning the zone helped to get to level 13.

Without hibernation i doubt my spriggan would have make it alive anyways as i ran into a very lot of blink frogs, more than usual, would have killed easily my character if i couldn't put them to sleep and stab them to death.

I just avoided to open the Lair:8 vault zone as i am not sure i want to get in there yet, will try to locate Orcs:Mines instead, will get back to that vault when i am a bit higher in level.

Very sad that i found absolutely no Jiyva altar in the whole Lair, i can only hope there is one in the Dungeon not too far from where i am, as i am not really in the mood of launching myself into Slime Pit and hope i can find it before i'm melting from all the acid projections from there and the insanely powerfull jellies that await in every corners.

[Frumple]

Re: SpEn: Pick up confusion (it's easier to confuse things like death yaks than knock 'em out, and hibernation's blocked by rCold -- it also renders undead stabable!), and invisibility for a panic button/pre-major-battle buff. Mephitic cloud is still a prime target for spell acquisition; you occasionally manage to stab (It's a second tier stab, iirc) confused critters. Hibernation, confusion, and the cloud will more or less get you through a chunkload of the dungeon; my SpEn of Nemelex has cleared down to D:20, the hive, and all of the lair using those three almost exclusively... though nemelex summon spam kinda' wrecked some stuff I shouldn't have been killing at that point (Golden dragon, death yak herds, etc.).

Still, those three are your primary weapons until you can pick up something with more punch. Just don't forget to turn off enchantments (Mine's been off since turn 2, currently level 15, at character level 17), and everything else except spellcasting, to maximize the XP spellcasting's getting. Also turn off small blades (Again, off since ~turn 2, currently level 12 ), and stabbing after about 8 or 10 or so. Keep your defensive options (Stealth, dodging, shields -- get a buckler, if you can -- and armor, if by some miracle you gather up enough XP to use it -- troll/dragon armors can help there.) on, fighting, spellcasting, maybe a few more incidentals (Nemelex sprig's got evocation open, traps and doors, and conjuration until it hits 5), but spell schools and weapons need to be off.

Get some fighting levels in when you get a chance. Confusing instead of hibernating can stretch out a fight or five when you've got spare XP without putting you in much danger. 17th level SpEn's got it up to 7, which isn't bad.

[Robsoie]

Thanks, will try to get those spells.
But i don't understand, why should i turn off the small blades and stabbing , isn't the higher the skill, the higher the damage inflicted ?

while small blades does not have any explanation on the wiki in what it truly does, stabbing at maximum skill level gives 1102.5% increase of damage to a sleeping monster, 399.4% to a confused one and 232.5% to an alerted one that has not noticed you.

Not something negligable, in comparison to the damage bonus it gives if you turn it off at skill 10

[Mr.Person]

I think he's saying the Exp is better spent in other areas since most things getting stabbed with level 10 stabbing are going to die anyways. Anything higher is extreme overkill.

Short blades improves the damage, accuracy, and attack delay of short blades. Of course, since 95% of damage increase from weapon use is increased attack speed and there's a cap on attack speed that short blades hit around 10 skill... there's little reason to have more than a little short blades skill.

[Frumple]

That pretty much covers it, actually. Longer babbling version covered up, hah.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Small blades (weapon schools in general) mostly increases attack speed; there's some to-hit and damage, but fighting does the same thing there and adds HP to boot. Further, it'll rise quick enough (especially with sprig aptitude involved) turned off -- again, my SpEn turned off shortblades before it even attacked anything, and has hit level 12 with it. Off doesn't actually prevent XP from going into the skill, just slows down th'process and lets more important skills get the lion's share of what you're spending.

Re: Stabbing -- I've been one-shotting sleeping hydras since stab 7 or so, probably earlier. Stab 10 is going to give a SpEn a good potential of base 40-ish damage for a tier 1 stab, before anything else (weapon skill, fighting, dex modifier for using a dagger, dex modifier for stabbing, etc, etc, etc.) is involved. Considering hydras have base 53 hp, it's probably considerably more than that. To be more precise, assuming a dex of 15 (SpEn starts with at least that much, iirc) and attacking with a dagger, you're going to do all your normal damage stuff, add 26 damage, then multiply all that by over 200%. That's end-game murdering stuff and close to overkill for mid-game. It's not going to stop rising, either; I turned off stabbing at 10, probably around your level, and it's now at 15. And fortunately, since I've had it off, my spellcasting matches it (Enchantments too, despite being off since I walked into the dungeon), which is considerably more important.

Anyway, tl;dr, there's a point with stabbing that you're doing more damage than you really need to and there's drastically more important things to be directing XP spending toward (Like spellcasting/anything that makes you harder to kill).