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[Lordinquisitor]

Couldn`t find a similar thread so here we go!

I like to build dwarven libraries; Rooms full of engraved walls. Yet it always bothers me when there are engravings of moons or similar between nice records of historical events.

So i wanted to suggest that you can now choose between different engraving modes-

1) Normal engravings. Just like now.

2) Historical engravings only. That means only records of things that happened in ages past.

3) Local history engravings only. That means only engravings of things that happened in your fort.

4) Only creative engravings. That are the engravings of creatures, symbols etc.

So- What do you think?

[existent]

3) Local history engravings only. That means only engravings of things that happened in your fort.

I've wished this was an option ever since I read Boatmurdered.

Edit: As a matter of fact, I usually hold of on engraving anything until something noteworthy has happened so it can be engraved.

[FreakyCheeseMan]

I was thinking that art in general should have an expanded role- maybe do it like it's done in the real world, where there are different styles and focuses depending on what's happening in your fort? So at any time, by any artist, you'll usually see similar things.

It would be nice to have "themed" rooms, though... maybe one room that was all military history, or let dwarven tombs have engravings that relate to their lives? Not sure how you'd impliment that, though....

[Deteramot]

I know it's extraordinarily non-dwarven, but for historical data and record keeping, I feel like a paper system should be implemented. I mean, it's nice to have engravings of important things in history, but paper is far, far, far, far, far, you get the idea, more compact and manageable. Let the artists do their abstract drawings of fancy wizards; keep history in the books.

That being said, it's excusable for seriously epic things in history, like the slaying of a megabeast or the staving off of an invasion by a single dwarf, to be engraved, because it's legitimately something which couldn't be described in writing. Things like engravings of the engraving of the engraving of the image on an artifact are just wasteful and really kinda pointless.

[FreakyCheeseMan]

I know it's extraordinarily non-dwarven, but for historical data and record keeping, I feel like a paper system should be implemented. I mean, it's nice to have engravings of important things in history, but paper is far, far, far, far, far, you get the idea, more compact and manageable. Let the artists do their abstract drawings of fancy wizards; keep history in the books.

That being said, it's excusable for seriously epic things in history, like the slaying of a megabeast or the staving off of an invasion by a single dwarf, to be engraved, because it's legitimately something which couldn't be described in writing. Things like engravings of the engraving of the engraving of the image on an artifact are just wasteful and really kinda pointless.

Well, what would said books really do for a fortress? It would be nice to have a library, but I'm uncertain what it could accomplish. Maybe something with the magic system, once that's built... having a really good library will draw wizards, and once in a while they'll drop something useful.

[existent]

Well, what would said books really do for a fortress? It would be nice to have a library, but I'm uncertain what it could accomplish. Maybe something with the magic system, once that's built... having a really good library will draw wizards, and once in a while they'll drop something useful.

Perhaps a library is a wizard's workshop? Or their "stockpile"?

[Deteramot]

I know it's extraordinarily non-dwarven, but for historical data and record keeping, I feel like a paper system should be implemented. I mean, it's nice to have engravings of important things in history, but paper is far, far, far, far, far, you get the idea, more compact and manageable. Let the artists do their abstract drawings of fancy wizards; keep history in the books.

That being said, it's excusable for seriously epic things in history, like the slaying of a megabeast or the staving off of an invasion by a single dwarf, to be engraved, because it's legitimately something which couldn't be described in writing. Things like engravings of the engraving of the engraving of the image on an artifact are just wasteful and really kinda pointless.

Well, what would said books really do for a fortress? It would be nice to have a library, but I'm uncertain what it could accomplish. Maybe something with the magic system, once that's built... having a really good library will draw wizards, and once in a while they'll drop something useful.

That's... a good point. Something like books would probably be a late stage implementation, just for cleaning up the look of things.

The only possible bonus I could see is if books also teach skills at some point. Like, Urist McUseless goes into the library, picks up a book on mining, and becomes a dabbling Miner.

But yeah. The only real bonuses are centralization and cleanliness.

[Grendus]

This is a record of dwarves. The dwarves are working. This relates to the founding of FortressName in StartingYear.

No thanks, I'll take my history on the walls. However, it would make sense that if the drawing is commissioned by the fortress leader (or by Armok or the fortress overmind or whatever) that a specific demand would be made. Michelangelo didn't "engrave" the Sistine Chapel with everything on his mind, he engraved it with biblical history and religious symbolism (I've been there, it's awe inspiring). A "legendary" dwarf artist would do the same. I like it.

[FreakyCheeseMan]

And yet, clearly, art over the years has been influenced by the personalities of artists, and the feelings of the times. While I'm sure the sistine chapel is lovely, I'd never trade it for the surrealism movement.

Plus, dadaist dwarves. Seriously.

Oh, on the books subtopic... they could be used for schools. Right now dwarven children are too rare to be worth talking about, but later on it might be worth giving them some on-the-go training, so when they emerge into adulthood, they're already a valued member of society. Books could be written about legendary dwarves and their works, or general history, or combat, or whatever.

[existent]

Dwarf Cubism movement. I want to see it.

[Igfig]

A partial solution might be to have it so an engraver engraving in a room that belongs to a dwarf will be more likely to draw that dwarf's history in the historical engravings, and take that dwarf's preferences into account for the artistic engravings, as if those preferences were his own.

[Silverionmox]

We need more control over engravings, according to their function. Ultimately we'll need to be able to ask specifically which scene or picture to engrave. It would be possible to try to make the game recognize the context (eg. military history in a barracks, a dwarf's preferences in his personal room, etc.) but that will never be satisfactory and lead to micromanipulation by players in order to get what they want where they want it.

In practice, there will be a few big categories  subdivided in smaller ones and ultimately every scene and picture: a hierarchy of scenes where you can pick a big branch, a small branch or a specific picture. Picking bigger branches leaves the dwarves more choice ànd is faster to select, so that will stop the players from micromanaging everything (if that's a concern).

[Grendus]

And yet, clearly, art over the years has been influenced by the personalities of artists, and the feelings of the times. While I'm sure the sistine chapel is lovely, I'd never trade it for the surrealism movement.

Plus, dadaist dwarves. Seriously.

True, and it would be more than acceptable for dwarves to favor engraving images of people that they like, historical events they were present for, or things they like. However, Michelangelo didn't paint the Sistine Chapel with images of cheese, elections, and the pope surrounded by rats. He was told to paint a church, which meant images important to Christian culture at the time. We should be able to tell our dwarves to do the same thing - "Engrave with pictures of food", "Engrave with pictures of history", "Engrave with fort history", "Engrave with anything", etc. Currently you can never tell if one of your engravers will draw a picture of the current mayor surrounded by vermin he hates in his bedroom.

[Lordinquisitor]

Ofc some dwarves would prefer to engrave certain things.

If a dwarf is forced to engrave something that he doesn`t like the engraving could be of poorer quality.

The idea with the context engravings is also quite nice. Maybe, when a dwarf is ordered to engrave the room of someone, both of them could meet and discuss the matter for some time. Would add another layer of dwarven interaction.

[Silverionmox]

If he doesn't like his job, he'll get a minor bad thought, I reckon. But just for his dislikes. They are, after all, dwarves who engrave for a living and work for clients (in casu the expedition leader, presumably). Bohemian l'art pour l'art types should exist too, but that's something different than your regular engravers.