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[NW_Kohaku]

I'd think that elves hating trees would be more akin to humans than dwarves. Besides, hating trees won't make them grow beards, even if they all start chopping down the forests.

A beard does not make a dwarf,a violent unstable personality does
oops I forgot dwarfs personalities are concealed in their beards

Plus, (male) elves already grow beards.

[FreakyCheeseMan]

Well, we'd mix it with the other syndrome effects that are coming any day now (wink, wink, nudge, nudge).

What do you really need to turn Elves into Dwarves? Mutation could make them grow a beard; insanity effects could make them evil-minded, aggressive, tree-hating cave dwellers, and instant, full necrosis of their lower legs could make them short.

[NW_Kohaku]

Well, we'd mix it with the other syndrome effects that are coming any day now (wink, wink, nudge, nudge).

What do you really need to turn Elves into Dwarves? Mutation could make them grow a beard; insanity effects could make them evil-minded, aggressive, tree-hating cave dwellers, and instant, full necrosis of their lower legs could make them short.

Technically, all the things that make elves hated are actually just the effects of being in their culture.  All you need to do to make elves dwarves (besides maybe the height thing) is to put them in a dwarven civ. 

This sort of thing was a big part of the whole "Cacame Awemedinade" thread, where we came down to the fact that putting elves in any other civ just makes them instant badasses.  (Like one kidnapped elf girl I had in legends mode, who at the age of 12, killed something like 46 elven and human attackers (single-handedly turning back an entire 200-man elven seige... three months after becoming an adult, and picking up a weapon for the first time) on her adopted home city in a single year before finally being felled by a lucky crossbow shot at the ripe old age of 13...

[FreakyCheeseMan]

OOH! I just remembered that nobles go crazy more often than any other dwarves!

How cool would that be? Your king goes crazy, decides all other dwarves are out to get him, and flees into the mines, living off of vermin and irrigation runoff?

Adding others to the list.

Kleptomania: Dwarf steals constantly, bringing stuff back to his own room, hiding random objects under his bed. May steal forbidden items.

Manic Hysteria: Dwarf rips of all its clothes and charges through the fortress, pulling every lever it can find.

Hmm... these might require a new option "Capture", as a command for military dwarves or the fortress guard. Maybe tranq darts? That or high wrestling skill. Dwarf would then be carried to the prison, where it would wait for transfer to the asylum.

Oh, and one or two noble-specific ones... maybe increase their demand throughput 10X, or have them constantly wreck their own posessions and demand replacements, or order every third dwarf they see be hammered.

[TheSummoner]

A "capture" command could just make military use supposibly non lethal attacks... Instead of stabbing or slashing with that sword, they smack them with the flat and pommel bash.  They're more inclined to try to wrestle the target... They still might accidently kill him, but they're trying to just knock him out.  Once the target is out like a light, they drag him to an empty cage or chain if one is available.

[NW_Kohaku]

A "capture" command could just make military use supposibly non lethal attacks... Instead of stabbing or slashing with that sword, they smack them with the flat and pommel bash.  They're more inclined to try to wrestle the target... They still might accidently kill him, but they're trying to just knock him out.  Once the target is out like a light, they drag him to an empty cage or chain if one is available.

The problem with that is that while there is a "stun" mechanic, it's very temporary, so you'd still basically be almost killing somoene to knock them unconscious.  Knocking a dwarf unconscious basically means he's probably about 2 minutes from bleeding to death anyway.

[FreakyCheeseMan]

A "capture" command could just make military use supposibly non lethal attacks... Instead of stabbing or slashing with that sword, they smack them with the flat and pommel bash.  They're more inclined to try to wrestle the target... They still might accidently kill him, but they're trying to just knock him out.  Once the target is out like a light, they drag him to an empty cage or chain if one is available.

The problem with that is that while there is a "stun" mechanic, it's very temporary, so you'd still basically be almost killing somoene to knock them unconscious.  Knocking a dwarf unconscious basically means he's probably about 2 minutes from bleeding to death anyway.

Yeah, it'd need to be something new. Normally not something I'd ask for, just to get this, but I think it's needed for megabeasts- we want to be able to capture them, but it should be at least a little bit difficult. So, no cage trap, but no uncapturability either. My idea would be get them pinned down in an enclosed space with a cave-in trap and then dispatch a special military unit with knock-out-venom blowdarts to bring them down. The big idea, though, is just to add a special "Capture" command, which could be useful in all kinds of places.

[NW_Kohaku]

Yeah, it'd need to be something new. Normally not something I'd ask for, just to get this, but I think it's needed for megabeasts- we want to be able to capture them, but it should be at least a little bit difficult. So, no cage trap, but no uncapturability either. My idea would be get them pinned down in an enclosed space with a cave-in trap and then dispatch a special military unit with knock-out-venom blowdarts to bring them down. The big idea, though, is just to add a special "Capture" command, which could be useful in all kinds of places.

Using knockout venom is a good idea, when we get the ability to apply venom to weapons.  It still won't work on Bronze Collossi, though, of course

[FreakyCheeseMan]

Yeah, it'd need to be something new. Normally not something I'd ask for, just to get this, but I think it's needed for megabeasts- we want to be able to capture them, but it should be at least a little bit difficult. So, no cage trap, but no uncapturability either. My idea would be get them pinned down in an enclosed space with a cave-in trap and then dispatch a special military unit with knock-out-venom blowdarts to bring them down. The big idea, though, is just to add a special "Capture" command, which could be useful in all kinds of places.

Using knockout venom is a good idea, when we get the ability to apply venom to weapons.  It still won't work on Bronze Collossi, though, of course

Eh, we can have *one* megabeast that can't be put in a cage by hook or by crook... and it'd be fun, trying to manhandle him into the arena without the use of cages. Control is comings and goings by manipulated ice walls, or some shit.

[TheSummoner]

A "capture" command could just make military use supposibly non lethal attacks... Instead of stabbing or slashing with that sword, they smack them with the flat and pommel bash.  They're more inclined to try to wrestle the target... They still might accidently kill him, but they're trying to just knock him out.  Once the target is out like a light, they drag him to an empty cage or chain if one is available.

The problem with that is that while there is a "stun" mechanic, it's very temporary, so you'd still basically be almost killing somoene to knock them unconscious.  Knocking a dwarf unconscious basically means he's probably about 2 minutes from bleeding to death anyway.

Not necessarily... Theres definatly a chance of them killing the target on accident, but if they stuck to blunt attacks and stopped when the target gave into pain or exhaustion, it would be less likely.  They'd still probably end up beating the crap out of the target to take it down, but most of the injuries would be bruising and broken bones.  They could also try to avoid instant death (like a good bash to the head) attacks when ordered to capture.

[Deteramot]

Toady already has non-lethal attacks on the Development plans, which would probably be something like smacking with the flat of the blade or the hilt, or striking with fists on the bridge of the nose, or even just a strong strike to the diaphragm, assuming getting winded is possible without damage to the lungs in the next version. Armlocks or head locks are also a possibility.