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[Shaostoul]

It's his choice. I'm completely satisfied with what has come out over the years and have no objection to how it is Toady goes about making his game.

I will admit there are things that I would like to see change, but the one fact, the one absolute fact that you can not ignore, is that this game isn't even beta yet. It's still in development. It may be a slow grinding process and it may have a ton of down falls, but it still remains a wonderful game. It's been a wonderful thing to see how much this game has grown from the work of one man. Yes the game may get made quicker with help from other people, but the only help Toady has made apparent that all he wants is for all of us to play and test the game and let him know of errors and feedback.

I am fine with it. Toady openly said he loves to code. This game is a coding challenge.

That's all I have to say really.

[Noble Digger]

Looks like a dead-end thread where all the important points have already been made and it's just partisan arguing remaining. :>

[Noble Digger]

I'll start!

YAAAAAAAAAAAAAAEEEEEEEEERGGGHHHHHH MY OPINION! ACCEPT IT! D:<<<<

[x2yzh9]

Holy shit, KrunkSplein is besttroll. Somehow he manages to be extremely rude/insult people saying they're trolling when they're clearly not. This should've gone in the suggestion forum, but acting like a dick[Not saying you ARE a dick Krunk] won't fix that. Makbeth is not a troll in any way, shape or form.

[Kilo24]

Looks like a dead-end thread where all the important points have already been made and it's just partisan arguing remaining. :>

Well, let's see if we can change it.

At which points do other community members think that Toady might be willing to accept help on?  The OpenGL revision by Baughn is the only one in DF's history that Toady was willing to incorporate, and that was after he presented solid proof that he could make the game better for a lot of people without any drawbacks.  Perhaps Toady could allow externally defined help files to render the wiki not a flat-out necessity?

[pickupsticks]

Perhaps Toady might be interested in people working up new adventurer-mode reactions, and incorporate some of the bits and pieces into a new release.  There are some good things happening in the mod-forum right now.

(not really "getting others to work on the code" at all, but "sharing the burden and passing out the donkey work" perhaps)

[Urist McFumbler]

Apologies, I have tried my hardest not to get involved in this kind of threads as it almost always turn into flamewars.

But IMHO, to the OP and others that think like him,

Why don't you spend your time to make your own game for 4 - 6 years to get what you want instead of wishing for something that has been categorically denied by the owner and coder?

If you can't be bothered to do it, then why bother imposeing what you want on someone else saying that it's valid criticism.

In essence, do it yourself if you think you have a better way.

[Tehran]

"But with NINE women, we could have the baby finished in one month!"

[DG]

Ungrateful, inconsiderate, impatient and selfish are the words that came to mind after reading the op and I apologize if that's an unfair judgement of you.

[monk12]

"But with NINE women, we could have the baby finished in one month!"

Oh god, I lol'd so hard.

If I may, I'd like to expand on Krunk's feelings of disgust, as I share them. Are you guys familiar with the expression "Don't look a gift horse in the mouth?" That is largely what this thread comes down to; we've got this great game, unlike any other thing, developed by the blood and sweat of one man as he builds a multiverse from the ground up, but there are still those who feel so entitled that they say he's not doing it fast enough. Then, in the spirit of suggestions, they offer ideas that Toady has already considered and outright rejected, and several times has offered reasons why. Claiming to know Toady's abilities, limits, and design process better than he does, and offering "helpful" pointers on how to improve is just rude.

Several folks have brought up the fact that Toady has already done some of this, with the OpenGL stuff. I'd like to point out that at a few points during that integration Toady mentioned how well it illustrated to himself that he cannot work well on this project with multiple other people. Toady is a Legendary Programmer, but by his own admission a Novice Organizer.

Its as though you were at your job, and random strangers walked up to you, said they had been following your work, and thought you could do it better another way. The suggestion they offer isn't terrible, but you know it wouldn't work, so you give the reasons why and that person goes away. But there's always another person with the same suggestion, so you put up a sign with the reasons so you can go back to your job. Ignoring that sign is simply inconsiderate.

There's always another stranger, and there's always another thread. Toady's got his sign up, and I doubt he even bothers to read these things, and instead directs his attention to the new suggestions. But just because an act is not offending Toady does not mean that it is not an offensive act.

All things considered, this thread is really a thread in which you can vent your spleen about things you cannot control and realities that cannot be altered. Since I've now done my own venting, I'll just go back to trying to get my magma piston to work.

[mnjiman]

After im done with my current fort, I am going to do a one dwarf fortress.

[Shrugging Khan]

Really, why all the hate. OP made a valid point: Our criticism of the development of DF ought to be permitted to extend to how Toady makes the game, not just what he puts into it. He won't have to listen to it, it IS his creation after all, but why shouldn't we be allowed to discuss alternative options?

[MaDeR Levap]

I would want a init option like [STARTNUMBER:7]. And, of course, immigrant options that works (AFAIK even when you set max popualtion on 0, some immigrants will come anyway). And BTW embark point limit belongs in init file, not in world gen parameters (gezz).

[Urist McFumbler]

Really, why all the hate. OP made a valid point: Our criticism of the development of DF ought to be permitted to extend to how Toady makes the game, not just what he puts into it. He won't have to listen to it, it IS his creation after all, but why shouldn't we be allowed to discuss alternative options?

What are you going on about?

We are just giving the OP some constructive criticism based on what we know and have read on this forums, if you think that's hate, you haven't been involved in any flamewars before.

[Rasta69]

Ungrateful, inconsiderate, impatient and selfish are the words that came to mind after reading the op and I apologize if that's an unfair judgement of you.

Really, why all the hate. OP made a valid point: Our criticism of the development of DF ought to be permitted to extend to how Toady makes the game, not just what he puts into it. He won't have to listen to it, it IS his creation after all, but why shouldn't we be allowed to discuss alternative options?

What are you going on about?

We are just giving the OP some constructive criticism based on what we know and have read on this forums, if you think that's hate, you haven't been involved in any flamewars before.

Those are hardly words I would use in constructive criticism. Regardless of wether you agree or disagree with his point this really has been poor form for a generally well mannered forum.