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Author Topic: Worst Games You've Ever Played?  (Read 49527 times)

Josephus

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Re: Worst Games You've Ever Played?
« Reply #225 on: August 05, 2010, 06:19:35 am »

Well, yeah.

Great Ghiana Sisters

Oh Jesus, I googled that and unearthed some pretty terrible shit.

Spoiler: An Abomination (click to show/hide)
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i had the elves bring me two tigermen, although i forgot to let them out of the cage and they died : ( i was sad : (

mendonca

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Re: Worst Games You've Ever Played?
« Reply #226 on: August 05, 2010, 06:39:38 am »

Oh man, I spelt it wrong.

It was one of those games that was terrible, but as I had an amiga and no NES, I felt like I was playing Mario (even though I clearly wasn't) and so kept playing it. And it was an x-copied version, with obligatory in-built trainer, therefore I always used to play with infinite lives but still never won.

A bit like Terry's Big Adventure.

Gah. At least you had a weaponised yo-yo in that one.
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Jackrabbit

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Re: Worst Games You've Ever Played?
« Reply #227 on: August 05, 2010, 06:57:09 am »

-
Quote
or Half-Life 1, where although something's going on it's established without reading walls of text.
you jest.  One of the highpoints of Deus Ex over half life is precisedly that there are reasonable pauses inbetween events, whereas Half Life tried to put the story without pause, which I feel acted against "suspension of disbelief" so to speak (in a way, the style sort of reminds me of the ancient greek theatre).

I wont even comment on Doom 2 as an example of "FPS with a plot".

The first Half-Life didn't have much of a story, the second one did. Presumably the suit injected Freeman with a mixture of adrenaline and meth-amphetamines every 6 hours or so and he survived because he's a badass.

Okay that last bit isn't presumed at all, it's fact.
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dragnar

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Re: Worst Games You've Ever Played?
« Reply #228 on: August 05, 2010, 07:23:58 am »

So I'm going to pick Deus Ex
Heresy!
Ok honestly I don't get what your problem with Deus Ex is. Its strongest point isn't story (which is quite good, so what if its just generic conspiracy theory?) but how much freedom player is given to go around his business. That is what makes it fun. You always have some kind of choice.
Agreed. And besides, while the huge number of conspiracy theories are a bit ridiculous, the game world is amazingly well made. There are sidequests EVERYWHERE, along with valid reasons to be completing them: they actually add to the plot instead of being random detours in it. Plus there are always multiple ways to do everything, from barging in guns blazing, to hacking defense systems, to sneaking in undetected.
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Jackrabbit

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Re: Worst Games You've Ever Played?
« Reply #229 on: August 05, 2010, 07:33:27 am »

I thought the story was pretty complex and well done. Also, JC used a bunch of really fancy words with political meanings at one point and that made me feel all clever. But yeah, the freedom and the way the game felt real was amazing.

e: The thing is though, there's two camps here. One that thinks that a story should merely be a vessel to take us to the gameplay and nothing more and one that thinks that a good, interesting story intertwined with good gameplay makes a great game. I'm siding with the latter, but both are equally valid points and both approaches have made for great games.
« Last Edit: August 05, 2010, 07:35:58 am by Jackrabbit »
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Medicine Man

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Re: Worst Games You've Ever Played?
« Reply #230 on: August 05, 2010, 08:16:15 am »

Man, Doom 2 had all the plot it needed.

You are in hell. Kill everything. Get the fuck out.

See? All that matters (in an FPS).
No the plot was,hell is on earth.Blow the FUCK out of it and pierce its dark obsidian heart.
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Josephus

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Re: Worst Games You've Ever Played?
« Reply #231 on: August 05, 2010, 08:17:39 am »

With as big a weapon as you can find. The gun that will pierce through to tomorrow.
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i had the elves bring me two tigermen, although i forgot to let them out of the cage and they died : ( i was sad : (

Medicine Man

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Re: Worst Games You've Ever Played?
« Reply #232 on: August 05, 2010, 09:28:38 am »

With as big a weapon as you can find. The gun that will pierce through to tomorrow.
Correct A+
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bloodnok

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Re: Worst Games You've Ever Played?
« Reply #233 on: August 05, 2010, 11:02:27 am »

e: The thing is though, there's two camps here. One that thinks that a story should merely be a vessel to take us to the gameplay and nothing more and one that thinks that a good, interesting story intertwined with good gameplay makes a great game.

I don't think there are two camps here. I'm perfectly happy with either of those. The trouble is, most games that think they have a good, interesting story to tell don't - the standard of writing in videogames is typically very low - and when a game thinks it has a good, interesting story to tell and doesn't, you've just taken a wrong turning at Exposition Junction and are en route to Wordopolis. Even when a game _does_ genuinely have a good story, it's easy to let endless cutscene syndrome sneak up on you - the player's there to play a game, and if they wanted to watch a movie, they'd probably have rented a movie.

A minimal story is safer; if it's lousy, at least you won't waste much time reading it, and it can _be_ corny because it serves another purpose. Dwarf Fortress's little bit of chat "... Strike the earth!" puts us stock in generic fantasy, but that's OK - we're released to play the game almost immediately. Deus Ex puts us equally stock in "collect the whole set" conspiracy theory territory, but it won't shut up about it; by the midpoint of the game, the only surprise might be if the Illuminati _don't_ turn up.

A fleshed-out story also risks serious cognitive dissonance with the actual gameplay. The classic example there is surely FF7 (I'm not even going near the question of whether FF7 has a good story); even though we've seen Aerith bludgeoned, shot, shivved, bit and burned in three hundred random encounters across half a continent, she gets stabbed by Sephiroth [1] and wham, she's dead. All very moving, or it would be if it wasn't for the little voice in the back of your head going "Ah, a Phoenix Down will sort that out in no time."

And do we get that in Deus Ex? You betcha. Even though Denton is one of UNATCO's top agents, the absolute best of the best, it doesn't take long before we find out that he is laughably incompetent at everything (furthermore, if we were paying attention during the tutorial, we know that UNATCO could make him awe-inspiringly competent, but choose not to) thanks to the much-vaunted CRPG elements. Not only that, it turns out that their top agent can only receive ammunition and supplies by wheedling with a man who is rather reminiscent of your boss's secretary guarding the last paperclip in the stationery cupboard - and, incidentally, if they wanted to make the least surprising plot twist in gaming actually have some consequences, a sudden transition from being allowed all the equipment you can carry to having to manage your supplies carefully could actually have been quite interesting.

And there's another clash between story and gameplay. The game mechanics encourage you to investigate every nook and cranny picking up multitools and lockpicks like some kind of demented magpie. Now, that's a fun thing to do, exploring everywhere - but the contrast with the plot, which often establishes a sense of urgency to our objectives, is somewhat jarring. If we're trapped in an MJ12 facility trying desperately to escape, just _why_ are we looking under every rock in the hope of finding a sandwich?

Of course, the other thing Deus Ex is praised for is the choice of approaches - charge in like a demented gun-bunny, sneak in, hack stuff, whatever. But there are two issues here. One is that none of those approaches is done particularly well. The shooting isn't as good as a straight-up FPS from the era; the sneaking isn't a patch on Thief (in particular the way that when a guard is alerted by anything they immediately make a beeline straight for your position which they have apparently psychically intuited is quite vexing); the hacking game is barely extant, and so on. Sure, we have a choice of mediocre gameplay, but it's still mediocre gameplay.

The other, more serious issue, is that the "figure this out using whatever tools you have in your box" game is hard to do without procedural content. We know, in Deus Ex, that there will always be a way to come charging in, guns blazing; there will always be a ventilation shaft between secure and not-secure; there will always be a password on a blue post-it note under a desk, a convenient sniper vantage, a handily positioned security control computer. Furthermore, since we're in modern-FPS save-and-reload land, we find ourselves heavily drawn towards prior-knowledge attacks (where we use something we shouldn't really know at that point in the game, like the layout of the terrain ahead), something the system of bioelectric energy heavily encourages - sure, you can be awesome, but only for twenty seconds, and knowing when the _right_ twenty seconds is is a powerful weapon.

That kind of thing can work in a roguelike. There's no guarantee that every approach will work, and you're got to figure out which approach to take in advance because there's no doing it over again. But in Deus Ex, you know for sure your preferred approach will work, which ain't much of a tactical decision.

[1] After thirteen years I think we may dispense with spoiler warnings.
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Akura

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Re: Worst Games You've Ever Played?
« Reply #234 on: August 05, 2010, 11:05:25 am »

Well, yeah.

Great Ghiana Sisters

Oh Jesus, I googled that and unearthed some pretty terrible shit.

Spoiler: An Abomination (click to show/hide)
Second image, *hurls*.

First image, pointy. And is that a silver dildo in her hand?
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janekk

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Re: Worst Games You've Ever Played?
« Reply #235 on: August 05, 2010, 12:48:36 pm »

tl;dr material
Wow that's a lot of nitpicking. So you are complaining guy in arsenal isn't giving you enough equipement and then you complain that game is giving you too much items to find and you can't resist rummaging through every shelf (even though you won't be able to carry it all anyway) and are you really complaining that game is giving you too many ways to solve your problem ?? Is it games fault that some players like to abuse save/load option? Would you prefer autosaves at rare checkpoints? To sum it up: What is this I don't even. Simply put I don't understand you. I don't get what your problem is. I really don't.
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bloodnok

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Re: Worst Games You've Ever Played?
« Reply #236 on: August 05, 2010, 12:57:53 pm »

tl;dr material
Wow that's a lot of nitpicking. So you are complaining guy in arsenal isn't giving you enough equipement and then you complain that game is giving you too much items to find and you can't resist rummaging through every shelf (even though you won't be able to carry it all anyway) and are you really complaining that game is giving you too many ways to solve your problem ?? Is it games fault that some players like to abuse save/load option? Would you prefer autosaves at rare checkpoints? To sum it up: What is this I don't even. Simply put I don't understand you. I don't get what your problem is. I really don't.

Possibly you would if you had actually read it. For example, the guy in the arsenal breaks suspension of disbelief because the story establishes you are one of UNATCO's top agents. Hence you probably should be allowed to requisition some bullets without too much difficulty.
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janekk

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Re: Worst Games You've Ever Played?
« Reply #237 on: August 05, 2010, 01:17:22 pm »

Possibly you would if you had actually read it. For example, the guy in the arsenal breaks suspension of disbelief because the story establishes you are one of UNATCO's top agents. Hence you probably should be allowed to requisition some bullets without too much difficulty.
Last time I played I did get ammo from him.
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bloodnok

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Re: Worst Games You've Ever Played?
« Reply #238 on: August 05, 2010, 01:25:04 pm »

Possibly you would if you had actually read it. For example, the guy in the arsenal breaks suspension of disbelief because the story establishes you are one of UNATCO's top agents. Hence you probably should be allowed to requisition some bullets without too much difficulty.
Last time I played I did get ammo from him.

Thank you, Captain Obvious. I'm not saying that no supplies are dispensed at all. I'm saying that UNATCO's top agent really ought to be able to go in and say "box of stun grenades, two pistol clips, and three taser chargers, please" rather than having one or two items passed out with grudging looks, making the more general point that one difficulty with strong story is that it is much easier for it to clash with gameplay and for that to make the story not work. No-one wonders why Doom's Hell is full of health and ammo because we all know Doom's story is fluff anyway, but Deus Ex pretends to be a beautifully realised universe and when it's not the contrast is quite jarring.

If you couldn't be bothered to read the original post that's up to you, but there really is no point in skimming it and then nitpicking about things you didn't actually read properly.
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janekk

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Re: Worst Games You've Ever Played?
« Reply #239 on: August 05, 2010, 01:41:37 pm »

Text
I read it and I'm simply not experiencing "suspension of disbelief". I see nothing wrong that arsenal guy isn't giving you whole arsenal right at the start of game. Well you know you are agent not a goddamn commando, right? Few lock-picks, multi-tools are more appropriate than box of grenades and machine gun.
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