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[timmeh]

Just got a look at my book-list for when I start college fall semester, and I realized all the introductory computer science courses use books based on Java.  As such, I'd like to get somewhat acquainted with basic Java before I start in a month.  However, a quick google search for an IDE returned far more results than I expected, so I figured I'd ask here, see if anyone had any suggestions. 

What I did find:

• NetBeans - I seem to hear about this one a lot, although in mixed reviews.
• Eclipse - The name is incredibly familiar, but I can't recall if it was in a positive or negative tone.  What I read on their website is promising however.
• BlueJ - Hadn't heard about it until I started googling, but the website makes it look like a particularly useful tool for learning Java.

I do realize the professor will likely already have the IDE and such we're going to be using selected, and possibly even the environment we'll be working in, but it would make the class substantially easier if I wasn't tripping over my proverbial feet with the syntax and such at the same time.  I'm likely to have a hard enough time with the core classes, anything I can do now to make a class easier (at least at the start), is a definite benefit....

Thank you for your time, and if there's any suggested reading material on the subject (IDE's and/or Java in general) that you'd like to suggest, that would be most appreciated as well.  I'm planning on doing more research for myself, but it's midnight now, and I have to be up early.

[Normandy]

I personally use Eclipse. Lots of plugin support, useful features like pop-up Javadoc reference, debugging suite, error/warning messages that appear while you code, smart refactoring of code (i.e. renaming, automatically adding unimplemented method stubs), etc... It is a little system intensive, but nothing a modern computer can't handle. I'd personally recommend this, but I haven't tried NetBeans in the past, so I'm not entirely sure this will be a wholly impartial recommendation.

BlueJ is a "particularly useful tool" if you consider a 'particularly useful tool' to be notepad. Debugging is actually pretty cool - it automatically generates unittesting tools for you and exposes them with a graphical interface. So if you write a class, and one to test one of the methods, you can simply right-click the class, click "new MyClass()" or whatever, and test each method individually. But otherwise, does not have my recommendations due to being only slightly more advanced an editor than notepad.

NetBeans, I have not tried. But I hear it has a built-in editor for swing.

[timmeh]

Thanks for the input!  Did a bit more research myself, dropped BlueJ as an option, and sort of realized that NetBeans, Eclipse and JBuilder were the 3 that were coming up the most, and JBuilder's free version seemed rather limited in comparison.  I've downloaded Eclipse and started working with that.  I think it's mostly going to be getting used to the core class libraries, the syntax seems pretty similar to the other stuff I've done, although the limitations on Java String's sort of threw me for a loop, looking through some tutorials. 

Anyways, thank you for your help.  If anyone else has input, particularly as far as good introductory texts, it'd be most appreciated; I can find plenty myself, but if there's any particularly good resources I should know about....

[SolarShado]

The only "IDE" I've really used is notepad/vi + command prompt. Recently I've used eclipse a bit, and is seems quite nice, if a bit sluggish to open/close.

Spoiler: <rant type="mini"> (click to show/hide)

Personally, I'm not a fan of putting newbies in front of IDEs, it hides what's really going on from them. "F7 to compile" is like teaching kids to add by puling out a calculator...</rant>

Here's the book that I used to get into Java; this is a newer edition (which i haven't read). There have been some quite useful features added since that first book was published (generics is the biggest thing). I was able to get it at my local public library.

If you've got even a little experience w/ C(++/#) syntax, Java should be a fairly easy transition. AFAIK the basic syntax is the same. There are differences in keywords, and how you call code in another file (import foo vs #include bar)

[timmeh]

I've tried using notepad-esq programs to write code, and while I don't mind building/compiling "manually", the lack of things like intellisense, build-in debugging, auto-complete, syntax highlighting etc. makes it more difficult to get used to a language in my opinion.  Still, I'm planning on looking into using command prompt once I get a little more comfortable.

Thanks for the input!  I'll check those out as soon as I get the chance.

I've got a little (read: minuscule) experience in both C++ and C# (a few months of C++, only about a month of C#), and so far it seems very similar.  Mostly just having trouble getting used to the java.*/javax.* libraries.  The SWING layout managers in particular are a little unwieldy for a beginner, but I'll get used to it eventually.  Managed to throw together a simple pong applet that scaled everything appropriately depending on the applet's size without much trouble.

[Fishbreath]

Having used both NetBeans and Eclipse, I have to say that NetBeans's support for Java is far and away better than Eclipse's. It comes down to this: NetBeans's Java editing mode has access to the syntax tree that the Java compiler makes. It's not trying to locate things by name as Eclipse's mode seems to do; it knows exactly where everything is the same way the compiler does. On the other hand, for the things you're likely to be doing in an intro to CS course, pretty much any IDE or even anything with syntax highlighting will do (assuming you don't have some other credit going in).

Other than that I'd like to agree with SolarShado on everything except his inexplicable preference for vi over emacs (I say, ducking to avoid the holy war I may have just started!). Java is an easy transition from C/++/#, and a very well-documented language in general. I don't blame you for your dislike for Swing.

On an entirely different note, I'd like to mention Groovy, a Java-derived language that cuts out a lot of the cruft and makes all the collections a whole lot easier to use. It's almost certainly little use to someone in a CS course, since those tend to be very language-specific, but it's a great little toy for someone like me who comes from a Java background.

[SolarShado]

Other than that I'd like to agree with SolarShado on everything except his inexplicable preference for vi over emacs (I say, ducking to avoid the holy war I may have just started!).

I LOL'd hard actually I use vim, for the majority of my time using linux "vi" was a link to "vim". tbh I've only recently used vi. still prefer vim.

never really tried emacs... "vi" is a lot shorter to type

EDIT: @timmeh: really, use what you're most comfortable with, also see: this

[Normandy]

Haha, I love xkcd.

I'd say that getting to know your way around compilers and compilation models really is only helpful for older languages like C/C++. It's a good thing to know, but nowadays modern languages are compiled so seamlessly it's almost pointless. Although, it is a necessary skill once you get out into the wilds and start trying to find specific libraries. The worst thing is an unsupported library that does exactly what you need in exactly the way you like it, but it doesn't work with your compiler, haha.

@Fishbreath:
Yeah, I think you're probably right about that. Eclipse is a much more modular system and isn't built specifically around Java (well it is, but not as much nowadays); i.e. it has branched out into many different languages.

[Fishbreath]

Completely true there on the branch-out part. Eclipse is better than NetBeans for things like Android (where the code isn't the hard part, getting all the framework stuff right is) and Grails, to name two Java-related things that NetBeans doesn't do particularly well.

Re: vi/vim, I might be better with them if I spent a little more time trying to get that way. As it stands, my competency there is limited to 'start, basic editing mode, make changes, quit', and since emacs is what I've used through college that's what I tend to use day to day.

[timmeh]

Thanks for all the input everyone!  I may download NetBeans as well, just so I can try both.  Working on design phase at the moment, but I'll probably try a simple luck-based game next, something with non-vector graphics perhaps....  Probably Liar's Dice, been playing a lot of Red Dead: Redeption lately

[ILikePie]

We use BlueJ in school. I've never used BJ as I've yet to take the class, but I've always been comfortable with something like GDB, GCC and Vim (Or a similar application). I've heard people describe Eclipse as MS visual studio for java, and with the right plugins, for every other language. It does everything VS does (That's completion, keeping track of your classes, etc.) aside from tripping out of control and making your code or menus suddenly vanish. This is just hearsay though, I've never used eclipse before.

[SolarShado]

We use BlueJ in school. I've never used BJ as I've yet to take the class, but I've always been comfortable with something like GDB, GCC and Vim (Or a similar application). I've heard people describe Eclipse as MS visual studio for java, and with the right plugins, for every other language. It does everything VS does (That's completion, keeping track of your classes, etc.) aside from tripping out of control and making your code or menus suddenly vanish. This is just hearsay though, I've never used eclipse before.

Sounds like a fair comparison to me. I've got a little experience with both, and they do seem quite similar. Some of the keyboard shortcuts are the same I believe.

[Blacken]

I've heard people describe Eclipse as MS visual studio for java, and with the right plugins, for every other language. It does everything VS does (That's completion, keeping track of your classes, etc.) aside from tripping out of control and making your code or menus suddenly vanish.

Uhm. If this is some sort of poor troll intended to suggest that Visual Studio does any of the latter, you should really re-evaluate trying to talk about things you clearly have not used extensively.

Anyway.

Eclipse is far and away the oldest, most established editing environment in the Java ecosystem. This is a blessing and a curse. A blessing, because there are plugins for anything under the sun. A curse, because it is an obnoxious, overengineered pain in the ass. Eclipse is not an IDE in the traditional sense; it can be described, fairly accurately, as a tool for making IDEs. Everything is very indirect and generalized. Which is in itself a good thing--the problem comes in its implementation, which has been used by everyone since as a guide for what not to do.

NetBeans is the "other" big name in the Java editing environment, and is a more polished user experience. Slightly fewer plugins, etc. exist for NetBeans, but for the most part this is largely irrelevant. NetBeans attempts to provide support for many languages and toolchains, as with Eclipse, but, again--they, like everyone else, had the benefit of watching Eclipse screw up, and the per-language integration is vastly better. It's still no Visual Studio--which is far and away superior to anything else when it comes to IDEs--but it is very, very good, and my IDE of choice for Java development.

[ILikePie]

Uhm. If this is some sort of poor troll intended to suggest that Visual Studio does any of the latter, you should really re-evaluate trying to talk about things you clearly have not used extensively.

I've used Visual Studio on and off for about a year, and I had my code just vanish at least thrice. It was mainly do to tabs and windows just randomly closing when I open the project, but it was still very annoying. I had no idea how to reopen them and wading through the countless menus, trying any option that sounds right was a chore.

[DrPizza]

Uhm. If this is some sort of poor troll intended to suggest that Visual Studio does any of the latter, you should really re-evaluate trying to talk about things you clearly have not used extensively.

I've used Visual Studio on and off for about a year, and I had my code just vanish at least thrice. It was mainly do to tabs and windows just randomly closing when I open the project, but it was still very annoying. I had no idea how to reopen them and wading through the countless menus, trying any option that sounds right was a chore.

I've been using Visual Studio for the entire history of the product (97, 6, 2002/.NET, 2003, 2005, 2008, 2010)--that's more than a decade--and I think you're full of crap.