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[MaDeR Levap]

A dog costs around 16, and yields 24 food and 13 fat.

I know teh haxxorz exploit. It involve buying on embark wood logs, making from them shit for tourists and selling them for more monies than original log. OMG.

[uioped1]

I feel the same way, I do it, but I also feel like it's a minor aspect where the gameplay is broken. It's the same as buying that 6th unit of booze for the extra barrel.  I like the explanation about mountain home bureaucracy though.  It's very dwarvenly and if that could somehow be conveyed at the embark screen it would set the mood -> this game is awesome, and you have only FUN awaiting you.

[Sfon]

You could say the same thing about buying dogs for slaughter.

Or, instead of spending all that time building workshops and then processing the animals/materials you could pay for ready-to-use food and set up farming sooner. Or doing more early mining, making beds, etc. Same goes for logs vs barrels and such. Both finished and unfinished goods on embark have their advantages. That labor does have value, it is in no way an exploit. If finished goods are too expensive compared to raw materials then yes that is a balance issue, but the general idea is sound.

Free containers, on the other hand, is a bit of an exploit and I'd personally like to see it fixed eventually.

[Tokeli]

Not to try and hijack a random thread or anything, but can someone point me to the gigantic thread of world seeds/embark locations?

[Taranli Maren]

Or, instead of spending all that time building workshops and then processing the animals/materials you could pay for ready-to-use food and set up farming sooner. Or doing more early mining, making beds, etc. Same goes for logs vs barrels and such. Both finished and unfinished goods on embark have their advantages. That labor does have value, it is in no way an exploit. If finished goods are too expensive compared to raw materials then yes that is a balance issue, but the general idea is sound.

Free containers, on the other hand, is a bit of an exploit and I'd personally like to see it fixed eventually.

My point is that if you pay 1 for a sand bag, and then build your glass workshop, wood burner, furnace, bake some charcoal/coke, then finally convert that sand bag into a useful empty bag (and some random glass item), then the labor requirement is there.  In fact, it requires a lot more labor than simply building a butcher's workshop and slaughtering a dog.  So just don't empty the sand bag.  USE it.

[Particleman]

People are always hating on migrants. I always overstock my food and booze (once the production is actually up and running), so to me the benefit of having more working hands outweighs the inconvenience of getting them set up in the fortress.

For me it's less "Oh god, I can't feed and house all these freeloaders immigrants" than it is "Ah hell, now I have to find something for the little bastards to do."

I often find myself running out of things for my dwarves to do and rarely have more than 80. Then again, I'm not terribly fond of megaprojects. In most of my games at least half my fort is 'peasants' (sometimes I rename them something like Peon or Serf, but they're all pretty much just haulers who also have masonry enabled so they can build walls.)

[Joishi]

I feel the same way, I do it, but I also feel like it's a minor aspect where the gameplay is broken. It's the same as buying that 6th unit of booze for the extra barrel.  I like the explanation about mountain home bureaucracy though.  It's very dwarvenly and if that could somehow be conveyed at the embark screen it would set the mood -> this game is awesome, and you have only FUN awaiting you.

I like this a lot.  ^.^

My point is that if you pay 1 for a sand bag, and then build your glass workshop, wood burner, furnace, bake some charcoal/coke, then finally convert that sand bag into a useful empty bag (and some random glass item), then the labor requirement is there.  In fact, it requires a lot more labor than simply building a butcher's workshop and slaughtering a dog.  So just don't empty the sand bag.  USE it.

I wouldn't WASTE the sand - definitely turn it into some glass.  But that's really not that difficult OR time consuming to do.  2 workshops, and you can do charcoal in tandem as you turn the sand into glass.  Takes 2 dwarves only a couple of minutes to convert 10 bags or so.  And the labor for that PALES in comparison to the labor of actually making bags from the START (if you don't bring thread/leather with you).  Pig Tail route: You have to mine a farm, flood it, place a farm plot, wait a season so you can grow pig tails, wait until they're done growing, harvest them, process them in the farmers workshop, loom them, and FINALLY weave them into a bag.  Leather Route: Bring some extra animals to slaughter or start with a hunter, build 2 workshops (butcher/tanner), and then try to make sure you're not wasteful while the butchered products sit out in the sun to rot, tan the hide, and then build a leather works to make the bag.

*shrug*  I'm finding the different viewpoints on the subject quite interesting though.